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M47 in Killeen, TX town square...
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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SFC_Jeff_Button
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:14 pm
Post subject: M47 in Killeen, TX town square...

I had a few minutes to spare today and went to the town square where I knew this M47 and a Cobra helo would be. My son Jeffrey will be posting the Helo over on officers club, but I can tell you that it's the same shade of green, yuk! I actually jumped a fence around the displays to get the close ups. The tank had to have been painted very recently as it was very shiney but very little appeared masked off except the MG mount and the main guns end. The paint under this coat was already very thick, as I've found with every M47 I've found, so I couldn't get any serial numbers from the lugs. The data palte on the rear appears Italian, so this is probably a Military Assistance tank that made its way back to the states but was saved from a range. I thought it looked in pretty good shape compared to some of the M47's I've seen. Can anyone identify or assist on its signifigance if there is any? Tomorrow I'm heading up to North Ft Hood to the MATES area to check out and photograph that M4A3 (105) HVSS thats out front. Hope to get it posted tomorrow evening!!!

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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:16 pm
Post subject: Re: M47 in Killeen, TX town square...

The ORMeC Balogna stamp makes this an ex-Italian tank - thats a depot facility. Another M47 recently posted on here in Hindman KY also has such a stamp.

Neil
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SFC_Jeff_Button
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:36 pm
Post subject: Re: M47 in Killeen, TX town square...

Both of the M47's at Ft Irwin were Italian vehicles as well. Their serials were 1560 and 1022. The transmission on 1560 had a rehaul data palte dated 6/5/68. The other data plate indicated it wa srebuilt in Cittadella, Italy. Italy used the M47 from 1954 through 1989, 35years total! Spain rebuilt 22- M47's into M-47ER3's from 1993-1996 and they are still in use today. I show the following countries still useing the M47 in some variation, Republic of Korea (though I never saw any while there twice), Jordan, Iran, Pakistan, and Yugoslavia. The M47 entered service in 1952 but was never used in Korea. It was already being replaced in 1953 by the M48 series. Once that occured, it was widely exported to European NATO countries forming the first modern tank forces in Belgium, France, Germany, and Austria. When produced new, the tank cost approx $129,000 each to produce. There were 8,576 built, 5,481 at the Detroit Tank Arsenal and 3,095 at American Locomotive.

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toadmanstankpictures
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:57 pm
Post subject: Re: M47 in Killeen, TX town square...

Ahh, one of my favorite tanks! Another subject for an upcoming CD. Jeff, thanks again for posting the pics. BTW, are you still taking photo requests for this weekend?

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Maple_Leaf_Eh
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 6:51 am
Post subject: Re: M47 in Killeen, TX town square...

If someone will coach me, I can post a couple of snaps of ex-Jugoslavian M-47s. Not the best quality (snap and scoot when transitting through an active Bosnian Federation camp).
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L.Delsing
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 7:17 am
Post subject: Re: M47 in Killeen, TX town square...

- SFC_Jeff_Button
Both of the M47's at Ft Irwin were Italian vehicles as well. Their serials were 1560 and 1022.


Hello Jeff,
Which number is were located? (OPS group HQ and the other was IIRC a range target)

Thanks in advance!
Regards,
Lesley
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C_Sherman
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 7:24 am
Post subject: Re: M47 in Killeen, TX town square...

- Maple_Leaf_Eh
If someone will coach me, I can post a couple of snaps of ex-Jugoslavian M-47s. Not the best quality (snap and scoot when transitting through an active Bosnian Federation camp).


Hi,

Any chance you will might visit the VRS HQ (former Tank School) in Banja Luka? The have about 20 WWII and later vehicles displayed there...US, German, Russian, etc. There are some really rare ones there, too.

If memory serves they have a German 251 w/PaK40, among others. I could kick myself for never finding time to take pics of them while I was there. My hosts were happy to let me do it, I just never had time on the short fall and winter days that I was there.

They also had a cutaway M84 originally used for training, inside the building. The autoloader system was powered, and they would load dummy ammunition. Noisy and Rube Goldberg-looking, but it worked. The NCO responsible for it was like a proud papa when given the chance to show it off.

C

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SFC_Jeff_Button
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 8:57 pm
Post subject: Re: M47 in Killeen, TX town square...

Toadman,
I hope to get to the 1st Cav museum Monday if possible to get inside that M4A3 (105) VVSS thats unsecure there. Otherwise my weekend is pretty busy with helping clear land on a friends ranch and going to a Texas Rangers / Cleveland Indians ball game Sunday. What did you have in mind?
Mr. Delsing,
1560 sits in front of the 1/11th ACR motor pool parking lot entrance. Still has its eng /trans. The other M47, 1022, sits in front of the OP's Group HQ's. Both serial numbers were located on the top of the front left tow lug under the MG port. They both required smoe scraping / sanding which I only did because the vehicles were suppossed to get repainted within the year.

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Maple_Leaf_Eh
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 1:22 pm
Post subject: Re: M47 in Killeen, TX town square...

- C_Sherman
- Maple_Leaf_Eh
If someone will coach me, I can post a couple of snaps of ex-Jugoslavian M-47s. Not the best quality (snap and scoot when transitting through an active Bosnian Federation camp).


Hi,

Any chance you will might visit the VRS HQ (former Tank School) in Banja Luka? The have about 20 WWII and later vehicles displayed there...US, German, Russian, etc. There are some really rare ones there, too.

If memory serves they have a German 251 w/PaK40, among others. I could kick myself for never finding time to take pics of them while I was there. My hosts were happy to let me do it, I just never had time on the short fall and winter days that I was there.

They also had a cutaway M84 originally used for training, inside the building. The autoloader system was powered, and they would load dummy ammunition. Noisy and Rube Goldberg-looking, but it worked. The NCO responsible for it was like a proud papa when given the chance to show it off.

C


No such luck. Very few Canadians in Bosnia these days (thank Gawd!). My camp was further south - down Gull to Smudge to Bluebird and a short stint up Bugle to get back to my bedspace, and I got up to the Metal Factory only a few times. The Federation Camp was on Smudge in a valley, and was a Serb prison camp during the civil war. The name escapes me right now. The M47s were gate guards on the West side of the road.

I heard the same sort of story as yours from Jeep Morgan. He spoke of doing a tour and hearing a rev, rev squeek, squeek, skreech sequence. Peeked around a corner and saw a Federation M84 (ie. T72) tearing back and forth on the hardstand trying to flick off the mud clinging to the track, all the while whipping the barrel up and down without the travel lock.
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Maple_Leaf_Eh
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 1:44 pm
Post subject: Re: M47 in Killeen, TX town square...

Manjaca Ranges !!

www.pbase.com/kevbelch...1&page=all

A blog from a Canadian CIMIC officer talking about the roads, the police, Canadian memorial sites, etc. But not a single reference to M47 tanks in Bosnia.

www.mytripjournal.com/...vg/13.3.18
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glmm
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:10 pm
Post subject: Re: M47 in Killeen, TX town square...

- SFC_Jeff_Button
Both of the M47's at Ft Irwin were Italian vehicles as well. Their serials were 1560 and 1022. The transmission on 1560 had a rehaul data palte dated 6/5/68. The other data plate indicated it wa srebuilt in Cittadella, Italy. Italy used the M47 from 1954 through 1989, 35years total! Spain rebuilt 22- M47's into M-47ER3's from 1993-1996 and they are still in use today.


The Italian M47s are quite ubiquous! Surprised to see them back to the US! There are plenty of them around in Spain, as a number was bought in the 80s with the idea of using them as the base for specialized variants (ARV, AVBL, Enginners...), although in the end and after several prototypes were made only the ER3 was built in quantity to support the M60 and Leopard 2 series. They will be eventually replaced by a Leopard 2 based ARV as they are too small to support the Leopard and the M60 series and logistic chain is in the way out.

An easy way to ID a Italian M47 are the two rain deflecting channels welded into the turret sides, which can clearly seem in this particular vehicle.
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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:00 am
Post subject: Re: M47 in Killeen, TX town square...

Hi Glmm! Hi Folks!

- glmm

The Italian M47s are quite ubiquous! Surprised to see them back to the US!


Returning them to the US was part of the deal when Italy received them. They could only be passed on to another country the US approved of or returned. A few years back a train load (if I remember right, just under of 100 of them) of Italian M47s stopped here in El Paso for a few days before moving up to White Sand Missile Range.

Sgt, Scouts Out!

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glmm
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:32 am
Post subject: Re: M47 in Killeen, TX town square...

- Roy_A_Lingle

Returning them to the US was part of the deal when Italy received them. They could only be passed on to another country the US approved of or returned. A few years back a train load (if I remember right, just under of 100 of them) of Italian M47s stopped here in El Paso for a few days before moving up to White Sand Missile Range.


I know, I know, but I just though shipping them back to the US wasn`t an economically viable possibility! I don`t know if we eventually bought our M47s, but as far as I know all were scrapped in Spain and none made it back to the US..... And looks like there are plenty of them around in France, for example.
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SFC_Jeff_Button
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 9:58 am
Post subject: Re: M47 in Killeen, TX town square...

I have found 4, M47's that were ex Italian tanks. The one in Barstow, CA., across from the fire dept, (serial # 403) was ex-Italion as well.

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HellonwheelsV100
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 1:09 pm
Post subject: Re: M47 in Killeen, TX town square...

Weren't these also the tanks that had the small bogie wheel (almost return roller size) down back the back sprocket? This one doesn't seem to have that, but I always thought it was the M47s that had those.

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