±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 663
Total: 663
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Photo Gallery
02: CPGlang
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: Downloads
06: Member Screenshots
07: News
08: Photo Gallery
09: Community Forums
10: Home
11: Community Forums
12: Home
13: Downloads
14: Photo Gallery
15: Community Forums
16: Photo Gallery
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Photo Gallery
20: Community Forums
21: Downloads
22: Community Forums
23: Downloads
24: Photo Gallery
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: Statistics
29: Community Forums
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Home
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Home
37: Downloads
38: Community Forums
39: Downloads
40: Photo Gallery
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Community Forums
44: Community Forums
45: Photo Gallery
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Member Screenshots
49: Photo Gallery
50: Home
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Home
54: Community Forums
55: Photo Gallery
56: Community Forums
57: Community Forums
58: Community Forums
59: Home
60: Community Forums
61: Home
62: Community Forums
63: Photo Gallery
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: Photo Gallery
69: Downloads
70: Community Forums
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Photo Gallery
76: Community Forums
77: Home
78: Photo Gallery
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Community Forums
84: Community Forums
85: Community Forums
86: Downloads
87: Community Forums
88: CPGlang
89: Home
90: Community Forums
91: Home
92: Community Forums
93: Home
94: Home
95: Home
96: Community Forums
97: Community Forums
98: Photo Gallery
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Downloads
102: Community Forums
103: News
104: Community Forums
105: Downloads
106: Community Forums
107: Home
108: Community Forums
109: Member Screenshots
110: Community Forums
111: Community Forums
112: Community Forums
113: Downloads
114: Home
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Community Forums
118: Community Forums
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: Community Forums
123: Community Forums
124: Downloads
125: Home
126: Photo Gallery
127: Community Forums
128: Statistics
129: Photo Gallery
130: CPGlang
131: Community Forums
132: Community Forums
133: Community Forums
134: Community Forums
135: Community Forums
136: Home
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Photo Gallery
140: News Archive
141: Community Forums
142: Community Forums
143: Community Forums
144: Community Forums
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Home
148: Member Screenshots
149: Member Screenshots
150: Community Forums
151: CPGlang
152: Community Forums
153: Community Forums
154: Home
155: Photo Gallery
156: Home
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Photo Gallery
160: Downloads
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: Home
164: Home
165: Community Forums
166: News
167: Community Forums
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: CPGlang
171: Community Forums
172: Community Forums
173: Community Forums
174: Home
175: Community Forums
176: CPGlang
177: Community Forums
178: Downloads
179: CPGlang
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Photo Gallery
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: Photo Gallery
188: Home
189: Community Forums
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Community Forums
194: Community Forums
195: Community Forums
196: CPGlang
197: Photo Gallery
198: Downloads
199: Photo Gallery
200: Community Forums
201: Downloads
202: Community Forums
203: Downloads
204: Community Forums
205: Community Forums
206: Photo Gallery
207: Downloads
208: Downloads
209: Community Forums
210: Photo Gallery
211: Photo Gallery
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: Statistics
215: CPGlang
216: Community Forums
217: Photo Gallery
218: Community Forums
219: Community Forums
220: CPGlang
221: Community Forums
222: Community Forums
223: News
224: Photo Gallery
225: Downloads
226: Photo Gallery
227: Downloads
228: Community Forums
229: CPGlang
230: Home
231: Community Forums
232: Community Forums
233: Community Forums
234: Downloads
235: Your Account
236: Community Forums
237: Home
238: Community Forums
239: Photo Gallery
240: Photo Gallery
241: Community Forums
242: Community Forums
243: Community Forums
244: Photo Gallery
245: Community Forums
246: Community Forums
247: Community Forums
248: News Archive
249: News Archive
250: Your Account
251: Community Forums
252: Home
253: Community Forums
254: Community Forums
255: Community Forums
256: Photo Gallery
257: Photo Gallery
258: Community Forums
259: Home
260: Community Forums
261: Community Forums
262: Downloads
263: Photo Gallery
264: Photo Gallery
265: Downloads
266: CPGlang
267: Community Forums
268: Photo Gallery
269: Photo Gallery
270: Photo Gallery
271: Community Forums
272: Community Forums
273: Community Forums
274: Home
275: Photo Gallery
276: Community Forums
277: Downloads
278: Home
279: Photo Gallery
280: Community Forums
281: Community Forums
282: Community Forums
283: Home
284: Community Forums
285: Home
286: News
287: Community Forums
288: Your Account
289: Community Forums
290: Community Forums
291: Photo Gallery
292: Home
293: Community Forums
294: Downloads
295: Community Forums
296: Downloads
297: Community Forums
298: Photo Gallery
299: Downloads
300: Community Forums
301: Community Forums
302: Downloads
303: Photo Gallery
304: Community Forums
305: Downloads
306: Community Forums
307: Member Screenshots
308: Community Forums
309: Community Forums
310: Community Forums
311: Home
312: Community Forums
313: Member Screenshots
314: Community Forums
315: Your Account
316: Downloads
317: Community Forums
318: Community Forums
319: Community Forums
320: Community Forums
321: Community Forums
322: Photo Gallery
323: Community Forums
324: Member Screenshots
325: Community Forums
326: Photo Gallery
327: News
328: Home
329: Community Forums
330: Downloads
331: Home
332: Home
333: Community Forums
334: Community Forums
335: Community Forums
336: Photo Gallery
337: CPGlang
338: Community Forums
339: Community Forums
340: Photo Gallery
341: Community Forums
342: Community Forums
343: Community Forums
344: Community Forums
345: Community Forums
346: Community Forums
347: Community Forums
348: Community Forums
349: Community Forums
350: Member Screenshots
351: Community Forums
352: Photo Gallery
353: News
354: Member Screenshots
355: Photo Gallery
356: Community Forums
357: Downloads
358: Community Forums
359: Photo Gallery
360: Community Forums
361: News
362: Community Forums
363: Home
364: Photo Gallery
365: Community Forums
366: Downloads
367: Community Forums
368: Community Forums
369: Community Forums
370: Community Forums
371: Photo Gallery
372: Community Forums
373: Community Forums
374: Your Account
375: Community Forums
376: Community Forums
377: Community Forums
378: Community Forums
379: Community Forums
380: Community Forums
381: Community Forums
382: Photo Gallery
383: CPGlang
384: Photo Gallery
385: News Archive
386: Community Forums
387: Community Forums
388: Community Forums
389: Community Forums
390: Community Forums
391: Community Forums
392: Community Forums
393: Community Forums
394: Photo Gallery
395: Community Forums
396: Community Forums
397: Community Forums
398: Community Forums
399: Downloads
400: Home
401: Your Account
402: Photo Gallery
403: Community Forums
404: Community Forums
405: Community Forums
406: Community Forums
407: Home
408: Photo Gallery
409: Community Forums
410: Home
411: Downloads
412: Community Forums
413: Community Forums
414: Community Forums
415: Community Forums
416: Downloads
417: Community Forums
418: Home
419: Community Forums
420: Community Forums
421: Photo Gallery
422: CPGlang
423: Community Forums
424: Community Forums
425: Downloads
426: Community Forums
427: Community Forums
428: Member Screenshots
429: Community Forums
430: Home
431: Home
432: CPGlang
433: Downloads
434: Community Forums
435: Community Forums
436: Your Account
437: Community Forums
438: Community Forums
439: Photo Gallery
440: Community Forums
441: Community Forums
442: Community Forums
443: Community Forums
444: Community Forums
445: Photo Gallery
446: Community Forums
447: Community Forums
448: Photo Gallery
449: Photo Gallery
450: Downloads
451: Your Account
452: Member Screenshots
453: Community Forums
454: Photo Gallery
455: Downloads
456: Community Forums
457: Photo Gallery
458: Community Forums
459: Community Forums
460: Community Forums
461: Community Forums
462: Community Forums
463: Community Forums
464: Statistics
465: Photo Gallery
466: Photo Gallery
467: Community Forums
468: Community Forums
469: Your Account
470: CPGlang
471: Community Forums
472: Community Forums
473: Community Forums
474: Community Forums
475: Photo Gallery
476: Downloads
477: Downloads
478: Community Forums
479: Home
480: Photo Gallery
481: Community Forums
482: Community Forums
483: Member Screenshots
484: Community Forums
485: Community Forums
486: Community Forums
487: Community Forums
488: Photo Gallery
489: Community Forums
490: Community Forums
491: Home
492: Community Forums
493: Community Forums
494: Community Forums
495: Community Forums
496: Photo Gallery
497: Home
498: Photo Gallery
499: Home
500: Community Forums
501: Community Forums
502: CPGlang
503: Community Forums
504: Community Forums
505: Community Forums
506: Community Forums
507: Photo Gallery
508: Community Forums
509: Home
510: Photo Gallery
511: Community Forums
512: Community Forums
513: Community Forums
514: Community Forums
515: CPGlang
516: Downloads
517: Community Forums
518: Community Forums
519: CPGlang
520: Downloads
521: Community Forums
522: Community Forums
523: Downloads
524: Community Forums
525: Community Forums
526: CPGlang
527: Photo Gallery
528: Home
529: Photo Gallery
530: Photo Gallery
531: Photo Gallery
532: Home
533: Community Forums
534: Photo Gallery
535: Community Forums
536: Downloads
537: Your Account
538: Community Forums
539: CPGlang
540: Photo Gallery
541: Home
542: Photo Gallery
543: Community Forums
544: Photo Gallery
545: Community Forums
546: Community Forums
547: Community Forums
548: Community Forums
549: Community Forums
550: Community Forums
551: Community Forums
552: CPGlang
553: Community Forums
554: Downloads
555: Community Forums
556: Community Forums
557: Community Forums
558: Community Forums
559: Community Forums
560: Downloads
561: Community Forums
562: Community Forums
563: Community Forums
564: Community Forums
565: Community Forums
566: Downloads
567: Community Forums
568: Community Forums
569: Community Forums
570: Community Forums
571: Photo Gallery
572: Community Forums
573: News
574: Community Forums
575: CPGlang
576: Your Account
577: Community Forums
578: Community Forums
579: Community Forums
580: Community Forums
581: Photo Gallery
582: Photo Gallery
583: Home
584: Community Forums
585: Home
586: Statistics
587: Community Forums
588: Community Forums
589: Community Forums
590: Statistics
591: Community Forums
592: Community Forums
593: Community Forums
594: Home
595: Community Forums
596: Photo Gallery
597: Downloads
598: Photo Gallery
599: Community Forums
600: Community Forums
601: Downloads
602: Community Forums
603: Community Forums
604: Community Forums
605: Community Forums
606: Community Forums
607: Photo Gallery
608: Photo Gallery
609: Community Forums
610: Community Forums
611: Photo Gallery
612: Community Forums
613: Photo Gallery
614: Community Forums
615: Community Forums
616: Statistics
617: Community Forums
618: Community Forums
619: Photo Gallery
620: Community Forums
621: Downloads
622: Your Account
623: Downloads
624: Downloads
625: Photo Gallery
626: Community Forums
627: Downloads
628: Community Forums
629: Your Account
630: Community Forums
631: Community Forums
632: Photo Gallery
633: Community Forums
634: Photo Gallery
635: CPGlang
636: Community Forums
637: Community Forums
638: Community Forums
639: Community Forums
640: Community Forums
641: Photo Gallery
642: Community Forums
643: Community Forums
644: Community Forums
645: Community Forums
646: Community Forums
647: Photo Gallery
648: Community Forums
649: Community Forums
650: Photo Gallery
651: Community Forums
652: Home
653: Community Forums
654: Community Forums
655: Home
656: Community Forums
657: Community Forums
658: Community Forums
659: Photo Gallery
660: Community Forums
661: Community Forums
662: Community Forums
663: Downloads

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
About one of those wheelie-bin-based pretend tanks...
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:00 pm
Post subject: About one of those wheelie-bin-based pretend tanks...

www4.army.mil/ocpa/rea...d_key=9467

Cool

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 2:22 am
Post subject: Re: About one of those wheelie-bin-based pretend tanks...

Hi Folks!

"Wheelie-bin-based pretend tanks..." Shocked

It's NOT a tank Evil or Very Mad , it's NOT a tank Evil or Very Mad , it's NOT a tank. Evil or Very Mad

It's an UPGRADE from a recoilless rifle mounted on a jeep. Razz

For all you tankers out there, this old scout would suggest that you all climb down off your real tanks, set down in a jeep and think about it for a few minutes. Or if you will, take off your tanker's boots and put on a pair of infantry walking boots.

Styrker is an upgrade for light infantrymen, not a down grade from main battle tanks. Not counting the Canadian Military in which case the current plan, if not changed, will result in the MGS being a down grade from the Leo I C2 MBT. Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad

I spent most of my career as a scout riding on M-114s (7-8 tons), M-113s (11-12 tons) and the M-151 4x4 MUTT with just a M-60 machine gun backed up by a pair of M-40 106mm RRs.

From an infantryman's point of veiw, the Stryker MGS is a lot better than a jeep or even an uparmored Hummer.
Sgt, Scouts out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 3:10 am
Post subject: Re: About one of those wheelie-bin-based pretend tanks...

It was my understanding that the gun system on the MGS Stryker was the same as an M1 tank, am I wrong? I saw one firing on the move last night on the Military Channel and it looked quite impressive!

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
Hellfish6
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 09, 2006
Posts: 151
Location: Orlando
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 5:06 am
Post subject: Re: About one of those wheelie-bin-based pretend tanks...

Its an M68 105mm gun. So yes, same gun on the original M1, but not the M1A1. Kind of misleading.

And Roy is exactly right. It's not a tank, it's not a replacement for a tank. It's an infantry support weapon. Better than a couple guys carrying recoilless rifles or something similar.
Back to top
View user's profile
Sabot
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 380
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:18 am
Post subject: Re: About one of those wheelie-bin-based pretend tanks...

I agree, the Strykers are not replacing the tanks/heavy mech, they are replacing the light infantry. The Army has realized that we need more guys with rifles than the tank/mech team had.

They realized after Somalia that the guys with rifles (no matter how elite) were too vulnerable with no organic armored transports.

So they figured, let's put guys in armored cars. We know it won't stand up to a tank, but it's better than an armored HMMWV. And if we need to face tanks, we still have our tanks to send in first.

_________________
RobG
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:43 am
Post subject: Re: About one of those wheelie-bin-based pretend tanks...

Hi Jeff! Hi Folks!

- SFC_Jeff_Button

It was my understanding that the gun system on the MGS Stryker was the same as an M1 tank, am I wrong? I saw one firing on the move last night on the Military Channel and it looked quite impressive!


That is part of the problem with the MGS. People see a 105mm cannon, the standard NATO tank killer for many years, carried on most NATO MBTs and they get a mine set that the MGS is sometype of new tank. While that cannon can kill a lot of the current tanks (notice, I didn't say MBT) that are on the plant, it would have trouble with many of the state of the art heavy weight MBTs.

The Stryker BCTs have been put together with a lot of TOW systems and AT4s as their PRIMARY MBT killers. The last system they would call forward to kill MBTs with would be the MGS. But like those TOWs and AT4s, great care must be used because the MGS, like the TOW carriers and the infantry with their AT4s are NOT Main Battle Tanks.

As SABOT said, The Stryker MGS is an ARMORED CAR. People need to call them Armored Cars and then maybe folks will STOP THINKING of them as some type of new tank.

In the case of the Canadian Military's plans to replace their Leo 1 C2s with MGS, if that goes through, those troopers are going to have to be very smart in how they deploy those vehicles. Just like an infantryman in a jeep with a recoilless rifle.

Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
JeffStringer
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 637

PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:49 am
Post subject: Re: About one of those wheelie-bin-based pretend tanks...

He, he! I remember watching the Military Channels 'Anatomy of a Stryker' and they covered the version with the M1's original 105mm gun and I thought: WOW! Imagine if you were the enemy and saw THAT speeding towards ya"! Laughing That had to be the most menacing looking non-tank I had ever seen!
Back to top
View user's profile
BryanWilson
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 1:01 pm
Post subject: Re: About one of those wheelie-bin-based pretend tanks...

Thanks for the link.

I just finished reading Stryker Combat Vehicles by Gordan Rottman (part of Osprey's New Vanguard series) & IMO, he gives a good, balanced account of the Stryker. What it is & what it isn't, what it can & cannot do & what it was designed for. I was rather surprised to read about the short development to deployment time for the Stryker. If you're looking for a good general history of the Stryker, I would recommend this book. Plus it's chock full of photos & drawing that are a hallmark of the NV series.

As an aside, it's refreshing to read a forum discussion on the Stryker that isn't full of bluster & BS that one too often sees on other "AFV enthusiast" sites.
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 1:17 pm
Post subject: Re: About one of those wheelie-bin-based pretend tanks...

I picked that one up to, but hate all the CGI they used for the pictures. In many cases they used CGI (including for the cover) when there are plenty of actual photos they could have used...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
BryanWilson
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 2:13 pm
Post subject: Re: About one of those wheelie-bin-based pretend tanks...

- Neil_Baumgardner
I picked that one up to, but hate all the CGI they used for the pictures. In many cases they used CGI (including for the cover) when there are plenty of actual photos they could have used...

Neil


Yea, I agree. They just resently started using those "CGI drawings" & I wish they would quit doing it. They just don't look right. I may write Osprey's customer service & express my opinion. Neutral
Back to top
View user's profile
Maple_Leaf_Eh
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 517

PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 1:09 am
Post subject: Re: About one of those wheelie-bin-based pretend tanks...

For what it is worth, the LAV III, Bison and Coyote family are doing heroic service in southern Afghanistan. The 25mm is the heaviest gun in the section (not counting M72 LAW and 40mm M203's). On three-round burst it is very controllable, and effective at piercing walls. The mobility is not equivalent to a tank, and nobody is trying to use it that way. But for a HEAVY APC it is doing quite well.

The bad guys have hit a number of convoys with their heaviest weapons, but as far as the open source reporting goes, they haven't knocked out any LAVs. There are some photos of a crippled LAV that was destroyed by 500 lb bombs on purpose, but I think it was too badly stuck to be recovered.

The Canadian MGS has not been in the news much. There have been stories about a halt to the Leo C2 disposal and some reporters mused about putting those tanks in AF, but this was flatly denied by the spokesmen.
Back to top
View user's profile
A2_Prius
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 27, 2006
Posts: 112

PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:49 am
Post subject: That wheelie-bin-based pretend tank

I think there'd be less confusion regarding this Stryker variant's mission if it had been called the Infantry Support Gun System, instead of MGS.

On a related thought, maybe its time to start a thread on the Abrams's successor, the XM? Legacy . . .
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:36 pm
Post subject: Re: That wheelie-bin-based pretend tank

- A2_Prius

On a related thought, maybe its time to start a thread on the Abrams's successor, the XM? Legacy . . .


I don't think we will see an Abrams successor for a long time.
But for the sake of discussion What will it's name be? Given that the last few tanks got their name from 'the leading practitioner of Armored Warfare from the previous generation' (my description of the name class containing Patton & Abrams) would the next one be

the Schwartscopf? ( I know I probably mis-spelled it, which would be an ongoing problem.) On the basis of the campaign in Desert Storm he is probably as deserving as anyone.

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Burik
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 05, 2006
Posts: 119

PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:40 pm
Post subject: Re: About one of those wheelie-bin-based pretend tanks...

- Neil_Baumgardner
I picked that one up to, but hate all the CGI they used for the pictures. In many cases they used CGI (including for the cover) when there are plenty of actual photos they could have used...

Neil


Hi Guys:

Ineresting thread. Osprey woud not be using photos for the "plates" in the middle of the book. That is always reserved for artwork. Nowadays I suppose it is much easier to use the computer to do the art part.

What I am disappointed about in the book is that it has too much of the pre-production Stryker illustrated. The driver's thermal imaging vision enhancer camera is constantly shown in front of the driver. It was relocated to the upper center of the hull. The few Iraqi deployed photos show this. Also, the two cylinders behind the driver's hatch (I think at least one is for the NBC system) were changed in production models and look quite different now. I suppose the author and illustrator had to rely on information available at the time and this is the problem with writing on a new vehicle, but if that is the case then this book took quite awhile to publish since these changes have been in place for at least three years.

Thus, guys like me who are modelers need to be wary of these photos for reference as it relates to production vehicles.

As far as the MGS goes it seems like a good idea. I just hope they got all those pre-production quirks worked out.

Bob
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum