±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: nbrich1
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6596

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 111
Total: 111
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Photo Gallery
03: Photo Gallery
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Photo Gallery
07: Downloads
08: Photo Gallery
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Photo Gallery
12: Community Forums
13: Community Forums
14: Community Forums
15: Photo Gallery
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Photo Gallery
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Photo Gallery
22: Community Forums
23: Photo Gallery
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: Photo Gallery
28: Community Forums
29: Home
30: Community Forums
31: Home
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Photo Gallery
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Community Forums
40: Photo Gallery
41: Community Forums
42: Downloads
43: Community Forums
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: Photo Gallery
48: Home
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Photo Gallery
56: Community Forums
57: Photo Gallery
58: Community Forums
59: Photo Gallery
60: Community Forums
61: Photo Gallery
62: Photo Gallery
63: Community Forums
64: Community Forums
65: Photo Gallery
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: Photo Gallery
69: Community Forums
70: Photo Gallery
71: Community Forums
72: Photo Gallery
73: Photo Gallery
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Photo Gallery
77: Photo Gallery
78: Community Forums
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Photo Gallery
83: Community Forums
84: Photo Gallery
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: Community Forums
88: Photo Gallery
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Photo Gallery
92: Community Forums
93: Downloads
94: Community Forums
95: Photo Gallery
96: Photo Gallery
97: Photo Gallery
98: Photo Gallery
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Photo Gallery
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: Community Forums
107: News
108: Home
109: Community Forums
110: Photo Gallery
111: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Grizzly and Sexton Versions
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
bialy-r
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 05, 2009
Posts: 1232
Location: POLAND
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 2:33 am
Post subject: Grizzly and Sexton Versions

Is that true that the early Sextons and Grizzlys where based or using parts/chassis of RAMs and where describe as Mk I.

Later it was change and Sextons and Grizzly used Grizzly program and could (Sexton for sure) be describe as Mk II.

I try to explain why one Grizzlys and Sextons have 17 gear main wheels other have 13 gear wheels.

Could I get a help with that.
Back to top
View user's profile
Michel_Krauss
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 953
Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:21 am
Post subject: Re: Grizzly and Sexton Versions

Hi Rafal,

The first batch of 125 Sexton are based on the Canadian Ram tank
The Ram tank itself was based on the automotive parts of the US M3 Lee
This version got the designation Sexton Mk I

The remaining Sexton vehicle's are based on the Canadian Grizzly tank
The Grizzly was based on the automotive parts of the US M4A1 Sherman
This version got the designation Sexton Mk II

There has not been an version of the Grizzly based on the Ram tank

see also Wikipedia:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...tillery%29

The number of teeth differ because of the different type of track used.
The Grizzly tank used CDP type track that usen an 13 teeth sprocket

see also the following site
there is also an short description of the Grizzly type tank
mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/...Canada.htm


Michel

_________________
I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You
Back to top
View user's profile
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 26, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:58 am
Post subject: Re: Grizzly and Sexton Versions

So,

-we should find only CDP tracks on Grizzly tanks

-and we can find both CDP tracks and RAM tracks on Sextons (if I understand correctly).

P-O

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 1434
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:16 am
Post subject: Re: Grizzly and Sexton Versions

Sexton IIs had stowage boxes & rails on the rear decks as well IIRC.

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
Michel_Krauss
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 953
Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 12:19 pm
Post subject: Re: Grizzly and Sexton Versions

- the_shadock
-we should find only CDP tracks on Grizzly tanks

-and we can find both CDP tracks and RAM tracks on Sextons (if I understand correctly)


I did some research and it is an little more complicated then that

CDP stands for Canadian Dry pin and was only used and tanks that where build and used by the Canadian troops

However an lot of the Canadian Sexton's Mk II went to the Britsih army and most of these where re-fitted with the Sherman type of tracks

So to keep it simple

- CDP tracks on Grizzly tanks, of which 188 where build and all where used for training purpose

- on the Sexton we could find:
Sexton Mk I : Ram track (M3 Medium) for Canadian and British vehicle's
Sexton Mk II : CDP and Sherman track for British vehicle's
Sexton Mk II : CDP for Canadian vehicle's

To make it realy complicated, at Amersfoort is an Canadian Ram II OP tank (dummy gun) that has Sherman automotive parts
So it also uses Sherman track's



However the Canadian Ram II tank (with the real 75mm gun) uses CDP track

There is more info to be found on tracks at the Sherman Register
web.inter.nl.net/users...k_vvss.htm

And on the Canadian Ram
www.mapleleafup.org/ve...c/ram.html

I'm loosing track Laughing Laughing Laughing

Michel

_________________
I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You
Back to top
View user's profile
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 1434
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 2:50 pm
Post subject: Re: Grizzly and Sexton Versions

- Michel_Krauss

To make it realy complicated, at Amersfoort is an Canadian Ram II OP tank (dummy gun) that has Sherman automotive parts
So it also uses Sherman track's

Michel
Popular%20misconception%20but%20thats%20a%20Ram%20ETT%20Lit;%20Evasive%20Target%20Tank%20-%20the%20dutch%20built%20two%20and%20the%20other%20is%20at%20Bovington

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
Michel_Krauss
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 953
Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Grizzly and Sexton Versions

- JimWeb
Ram ETT Lit; Evasive Target Tank


Jim, I'm willing to believe you

however I have never heard of it and can not even find it....

What is the main difference between the two?
And where can I find some information about it??

Because, the general opinion is that it is an OP version
At least that is what the museum at Amersfoort is telling
And according Bovington the description is "Cruiser tank RAM Mk II" and that is not correct either

If it is realy an Ram ETT Lit; Evasive Target Tank
We also better tell P-O
Because it is listed as an Ram OP in the surviving Canadian & Australian list, just like the one in Bovington

I also found something else...
The one in Bovington is actualy an Dutch vehicle
On the following site, search for vehicle number "CT159418"
www.ramtank.ca/ram_mk2_5.htm

Michel

_________________
I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You
Back to top
View user's profile
Michel_Krauss
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 953
Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Grizzly and Sexton Versions

If some one want's to know

The Ram Kangaroo at Mill, The Netherlands
Is based on the Ram Mk I, based on the M3 Medium automotive parts

picture set from P-O Mr. Green
news.webshots.com/albu...0825TvKFmf

Michel

_________________
I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 22, 2006
Posts: 4632
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:19 pm
Post subject: Re: Grizzly and Sexton Versions

You know, I wondered about that gun on the Amersfoort vehicle when I first saw it...now I understand that it's a dummy gun.

BTW, the drive sprockets on that vehicle do not match, left and right, though both have 13 teeth. Is this usual or did they piece that together with whatever parts were available?

Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Michel_Krauss
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 953
Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 2:36 am
Post subject: Re: Grizzly and Sexton Versions

- Doug_Kibbey
BTW, the drive sprockets on that vehicle do not match, left and right


Thanks for telling, to be honest I never noticed that before

I do not know if this happend very often, however for this vehicle they most likely used what there was on stock

This is what I know about the Dutch armoured force's

It was founded in 1946 after the war
For equipment they recieved equipment thzt was "borrowed" from various British and Canadian vehicle depots in Holland

In total about 150 tanks of all kinds / versions
Most of them where Canadian Ram tanks, however also various type's of Sherman tanks and 57 Firefly's

In 1951 there where 141 listed in service (including 23 Firefly's operational) of which 50% was wreckage
The wreackage was used to keep the other tanks operational Shocked

This situation remained untill 1953 when they where replaced with Centurion tanks

However in 1959 there where still 131 Shermans listed, in various operational conditions

Of these 30 Sherman M4A3 (105) where handed over to the Dutch Royal Marines, most of the remaining Sherman's going to the shooting range

The last Sherman of the Royal Marines was redrawn from service in the seventhies

Michel

_________________
I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You
Back to top
View user's profile
Kurt_Laughlin
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 569

PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 8:05 am
Post subject: Re: Grizzly and Sexton Versions

Sherman-type sprockets were fully interchangeable throughout the use of the vehicle, so after a period of use you could see any combination.

KL
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Hanno_Spoelstra
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jun 03, 2006
Posts: 185

PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 10:29 am
Post subject: Re: Grizzly and Sexton Versions

JimWeb wrote:
Popular misconception but thats a Ram ETT Lit; Evasive Target Tank - the dutch built two and the other is at Bovington


Jim, indeed it is a target tank, but they were NOT built by the Dutch. They were part of a batch of forty-four Rams delivered in 1947. Reportedly, four were Command/O.P. tanks, the rest were Ram IIs retrofitted with the British 75mm gun.
Ref. my web: See web.inter.nl.net/users...104/nl.htm

We now know at least two were target training tanks, today many people think they are OP's.

The one at Bovington was at one time called "GIJS" (a Dutch boys name), and was exchanged for a Grizzly.

Hanno
Back to top
View user's profile
Hanno_Spoelstra
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jun 03, 2006
Posts: 185

PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 10:32 am
Post subject: Re: Grizzly and Sexton Versions

If some one want's to know

The Ram Kangaroo at Mill, The Netherlands
Is based on the Ram Mk I, based on the M3 Medium automotive parts

picture set from P-O
news.webshots.com/albu...0825TvKFmf

Michel


Michel,

The Ram at Mill is a Mk.II, the fact that it is fitted with the earlier bogie style does not make it a Mk.I

The Ram Mk.I had a 2-pdr gun, the Ram Mk.II had a 6-pdr gun. Manufacturing changes are not a unique differentiator between the two marks.

Hanno
Back to top
View user's profile
Hanno_Spoelstra
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jun 03, 2006
Posts: 185

PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 10:42 am
Post subject: Re: Grizzly and Sexton Versions

In total about 150 tanks of all kinds / versions
Most of them where Canadian Ram tanks, however also various type's of Sherman tanks and 57 Firefly's
[snip]
Of these 30 Sherman M4A3 (105) where handed over to the Dutch Royal Marines, most of the remaining Sherman's going to the shooting range
The last Sherman of the Royal Marines was redrawn from service in the seventhies
Michel


Michel,

Not entirely correct – please see my web page at web.inter.nl.net/users...104/nl.htm

Hanno
Back to top
View user's profile
Michel_Krauss
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 953
Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 10:48 am
Post subject: Re: Grizzly and Sexton Versions

Hi Hanno,

thanks for telling about the Kangaroo, I will change it in the list


However youre post about the Ram ETT Lit, also leaves an question

- Hanno_Spoelstra
and was exchanged for a Grizzly


Where did the Grizzly tank go Confused Confused Confused

Michel

_________________
I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 3
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum