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Design concepts for next-generation all-terrain MRAPs
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Peter_Dow
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Joined: Jul 31, 2010
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 3:28 pm
Post subject: Design concepts for next-generation all-terrain MRAPs

- Wikipedia
MRAP (armored vehicle)

Mine Resistant Ambush Protected (MRAP) vehicles are a family of armored fighting vehicles designed to survive IED attacks and ambushes. IEDs cause the majority (63%) of US deaths in Iraq.
...
A June 13 report by the Marine Corps Center for Lessons Learned indicated concerns about MRAP vehicles rolling over in combat zones.

The V-shaped hulls of the MRAP give it a higher center of gravity and the weight of the MRAP can cause the poorly built or maintained roads in rural Iraq or Afghanistan to collapse.

Of the 66 MRAP accidents between Nov. 7, 2007 and June 8, 2008, almost 40 were due to rollovers caused by bad roads, weak bridges, or driver error.

In many of the rollovers troops were injured, and in two separate incidents five soldiers have been killed by rolling over into a canal and getting trapped under water. The report said 75% of all rollovers occurred in rural areas often when the road is above grade and a ditch or canal full of water is next to it.


OK so that is the problem and there is an obvious vehicle modification to counter the roll-over problem which is to fit stabilisers, adopting the same concept employed in a child's bicycle.

The%20simplest%20and%20cheapest%20way%20to%20do%20this%20would%20be%20have%20bolt%20on%20stabilisers%20which%20could%20be%20partially%20unbolted%20to%20fold%20up%20when%20not%20required%20while%20driving%20on%20good%20flat%20roads%20but%20where%20the%20additional%20width%20of%20the%20stabilisers%20would%20cause%20problems,%20such%20as%20when%20travelling%20along%20narrow%20roads,%20needing%20to%20negotiate%20dense%20traffic%20such%20as%20in%20urban%20roads. The%20high-tech%20and%20expensive%20solution%20would%20be%20stabilisers%20which%20fold-up%20or%20deploy%20automatically%20using%20hydraulics%20at%20the%20touch%20of%20a%20driver's%20button. However,%20when%20you%20compare%20the%20expense%20of%20a%20good%20solution%20to%20the%20expense%20of%20lives%20lost%20by%20MRAP%20rollovers%20then%20it%20is%20a%20small%20price%20to%20pay. OK%20that%20idea%20is%20adapting%20the%20existing%20MRAPs%20but%20here%20is%20an%20idea%20for%20a%20completely%20new%20design%20of%20MRAP.%20%20:idea:%20 The%20catamaran%20tank%20-%20an%20MRAP%20which%20doesn't%20roll%20over! Conjoined%20All-Terrain%20Anti-Mine%20Ambush%20Repellent%20Armoured%20Next-generation%20(CATAMARAN)%20Vehicle
%20%20
©%20Peter%20Dow The%20CATAMARAN%20vehicle%20concept%20is%20the%20original%20idea%20of%20Peter%20Dow%20of%20Aberdeen,%20Scotland%20and%20was%20published%20on%2026th%20July%202010.%20All%20copyrights%20are%20retained%20by%20Peter%20Dow.
A%20catamaran%20-%20the%20inspiration%20for%20a%20twin-hulled%20armoured%20vehicle The%20catamaran%20tank%20or%20catamaran%20MRAP%20or%20catamaran%20armoured%20vehicle%20or%20catamaran%20armored%20vehicle%20-%20you%20heard%20it%20here%20first! One%20idea%20I%20have%20for%20a%20completely%20new%20design%20to%20counter%20ground-blasts%20yet%20retain%20stability%20would%20be%20a%20double-hull%20or%20catamaran%20tank. To%20explain,%20let%20us%20describe%20most%20simply%20the%20current%20MRAP%20vehicle%20design%20as%20an%20M-shape,%20looking%20at%20the%20vehicle%20from%20the%20front%20or%20the%20rear,%20with%20a%20high%20middle,%20and%20a%20V-shaped%20hull,%20armoured%20to%20deflect%20the%20blasts. Well%20the%20concept%20of%20the%20catamaran%20tank%20is%20to%20replace%20the%20M-shape%20with%20something%20more%20like%20a%20Y''Y-shape%20which%20is%20a%20lot%20wider%20for%20stability%20and%20so%20may%20not%20be%20so%20good%20in%20narrow%20streets%20or%20traffic%20admittedly. The%20central%20double%20quotes%20in%20the%20Y\"Y-shape%20represents%20a%20line%20of%20strong%20blast-chimneys%20up%20through%20the%20middle%20of%20the%20vehicle,%20from%20front%20to%20rear,%20which%20some%20of%20the%20blast%20could%20go%20up%20without%20splitting%20the%20vehicle%20in%20two. This%20twin-hull,%20double-hull%20MRAP%20would%20give%20two%20distinct%20cabins%20on%20the%20left%20and%20right%20of%20the%20vehicle%20and%20however%20high%20you%20need%20the%20vehicle%20to%20get%20distance%20from%20a%20ground%20blast%20then%20make%20the%20Ys%20bigger%20and%20so%20further%20apart%20which%20keeps%20stability. The%20leg%20of%20the%20Ys%20could%20have%20blast%20ventilation%20holes%20so%20that%20blast%20gas%20under%20the%20vehicle%20can%20escape%20to%20the%20sides%20as%20well%20as%20up%20the%20central%20chimneys.%20The%20more%20ways%20the%20blast%20gas%20can%20escape%20from%20under%20the%20vehicle%20the%20less%20force%20the%20blast%20will%20apply%20against%20the%20vehicle%20itself. The%20bottom%20of%20the%20Ys%20could%20be%20either%20wheels%20or%20tracks%20depending%20on%20what%20ground%20conditions%20you%20are%20designing%20the%20vehicle%20for%20and%20need%20to%20cope%20with. This%20dear%20forum%20members%20is%20the%20catamaran%20tank%20-%20my%20idea%20and%20you%20heard%20it%20here%20first.%20Copyright%20©%20Peter%20Dow,%2026th%20July,%202010. Considering%20the%20wheeled%20version%20of%20the%20catamaran%20tank%20only%20for%20now. My%20proposal%20is%20that%20the%20left%20and%20right%20sides%20while%20separated%20are%204%20wheeled%20vehicles%20which%20you%20can%20drive%20independently,%20call%20those%20\"half-vehicles\"%20Y-sides. The%20Y-sides%20are%20tall%20and%20narrow%20and%20even%20less%20stable%20than%20an%20MRAP%20while%20separated%20but%20loading%20and%20unloading%20on%20and%20off%20transport%20and%20manoeuvring%20the%20sides%20in%20position%20to%20connect%20together%20the%20stability%20is%20sufficient. Then,%20when%20you%20come%20to%20bolt%20the%20two%20Y-sides%20together%20there%20are%20a%20number%20of%20choices%20as%20to%20how%20wide%20apart%20the%20left%20and%20right%20hand%20Y-sides%20are%20fixed. I'll%20type%20in%20some%20figures%20so%20you%20can%20see%20what%20I%20mean. Say,%20the%20separated%20Y-sides%20are%204%20feet%20wide. Well%20for%20example,%20the%20connecting%20bars%20or%20tubes%20could%20hold%20the%20left%20and%20rights%20Y-sides%20together%20separated%20by%20these%20example%20widths:
  • 1%20foot,%20Y1Y%20so%20the%20total%20width%20is%204%20+%201%20+%204%20=%209%20feet%20-%20no%20wider%20than%20a%20Cougar%20MRAP%20and%20so%20as%20stable%20as%20todays%20MRAPs%20and%20narrow%20enough%20for%20urban%20roads%20and%20traffic.
  • 4%20feet,%20Y4Y%20so%20the%20total%20width%20is%204%20+%204%20+%204%20=%2012%20feet,%20the%20same%20as%20an%20M1%20battle%20tank,%20good%20for%20country%20roads,%20stable%20but%20narrow%20enough%20to%20get%20across%20most%20bridges%20no%20problem.
  • 8%20feet,%20Y8Y%20so%20the%20total%20width%20is%204%20+%208%20+%204%20=%2016%20feet,%20super-stable%20for%20open%20cross%20country%20off%20road%20where%20the%20extra%20width%20is%20no%20problem%20for%20crossing%20bridges%20or%20fitting%20on%20roads%20because%20there%20are%20no%20roads%20maybe%20nothing%20more%20than%20a%20dirt%20track%20of%20uncertain%20width%20itself,%20maybe%20nothing%20but%20rough%20ground%20and%20rivers%20need%20to%20be%20forded%20or%20not%20crossed%20at%20all%20and%20then%20the%20extra%20stability%20is%20purely%20a%20bonus%20with%20no%20disadvantage%20of%20extra%20width.
The%20vehicle%20could%20even%20carry%20the%20different%20lengths%20of%20connecting%20bars%20or%20tubes%20for%20the%20crew%20to%20swap%20round%20to%20change%20vehicle%20width%20which%20they%20can%20do%20themselves%20anywhere%20they%20can%20find%20a%20flat%20piece%20of%20ground%20-%20no%20special%20facilities%20required. When%20you%20change%20configuration%20you%20are%20changing%20the%20connecting%20bars%20between%20the%20two%20Y-side%20vehicles. So%20the%20mechanic%20or%20the%20trained%20crew%20would%20
  • unbolt%20and%20remove%20the%20connecting%20bars%20you%20want%20to%20change
  • drive%20one%20of%20the%20Y-sides%20to%20about%20the%20right%20new%20position%20for%20the%20new%20bars
  • attach%20the%20bars%20and%20tighten%20them%20up%20to%20bring%20the%20Y-sides%20to%20the%20right%20distance%20apart.
Well%20there%20must%20be%20many%20ways%20of%20doing%20this%20but%20here%20is%20one%20suggestion. The%20diagram%20shows%20how%20the%20connecting%20bars%20bolt%20on%20to%20the%20vehicle%20on%20one%20side.%20The%20other%20side%20is%20symmetrically%20the%20same.
%20%20
  • The%20lug%20welded%20to%20the%20vehicle%20side%20(left)%20bolts%20to%20the%20clevis%20(at%20\"A\"%20in%20the%20diagram)%20and%20before%20the%20nut%20is%20tightened%20the%20clevis%20can%20rotate.
  • The%20clevis%20slots%20in%20and%20bolts%20to%20the%20box%20section%20(at%20\"B\"%20in%20the%20diagram).%20The%20clevis%20is%20able%20to%20rotate%20here%20too%20before%20the%20nut%20is%20tightened%20because%20the%20clevis%20is%20narrower%20than%20the%20inner%20dimension%20of%20the%20box%20section,%20height-wise%20in%20the%20diagram,%20though%20breadth-wise%20the%20fit%20is%20snug%20to%20allow%20the%20bolt%20to%20tighten%20when%20required%20without%20bending%20the%20box%20section.
  • The%20connecting%20bar%20slots%20snugly%20inside%20the%20box%20section%20(snug%20both%20height-wise%20and%20breadth%20wise)%20and%20they%20bolt%20together%20(at%20\"C\"%20in%20the%20diagram)%20using%20holes%20drilled%20so%20that%20when%20the%20connecting%20bar%20is%20butting%20firmly%20up%20to%20the%20clevis%20it%20bolts%20together.%20The%20butting%20remains%20firmly%20the%20same%20independent%20of%20the%20rotation%20of%20the%20clevis%20inside%20the%20box%20section%20because%20the%20end%20of%20the%20clevis%20is%20shaped%20according%20to%20a%20circular%20arc%20centred%20around%20the%20bolt%20hole.
  • The%20procedure%20to%20connect%20the%20two%20Y-sides%20vehicles%20together%20is%20that%20you%20manoeuvre%20one%20vehicle%20to%20a%20position%20where%20you%20can%20loosely%20connect%20the%20bolts%20at%20points%20A%20and%20B%20so%20that%20the%20box%20section%20while%20fixed%20to%20the%20vehicle%20has%20some%20movement%20in%20two%20degrees%20of%20rotational%20freedom%20and%20the%20connecting%20bar%20is%20sliding%20inside%20both%20box%20sections%20at%20either%20end%20but%20not%20able%20to%20fall%20out. This%20means%20that%20the%20vehicles%20will%20be%20separated%20by%20slightly%20more%20than%20the%20distance%20that%20they%20will%20finally%20be%20fixed%20at%20and%20typically%20a%20variable%20distance%20apart%20from%20front%20to%20back,%20bottom%20to%20top.%20There%20are%20too%20many%20variables%20to%20expect%20anything%20else. If%20the%20Y-sides%20are%20too%20far%20apart%20then%20the%20connecting%20bars%20will%20fall%20out%20of%20the%20box%20sections;%20too%20close%20and%20the%20connecting%20bars%20won't%20fit%20between%20the%20ends%20of%20the%20clevises.%20 OK%20so%20you%20fit%20all%20the%20connecting%20bars%20like%20that%20then%20winch%20the%20vehicles%20together%20using%20two%20winches,%20firstly%20using%20winch%20anchor%20points%20low%20down%20near%20the%20wheels%20-%20low%20so%20as%20to%20mostly%20drag%20the%20vehicles%20together,%20not%20just%20tilt%20them%20over! This%20will%20bring%20the%20vehicles%20together%20until%20you%20can%20slot%20in%20the%20bolts%20and%20put%20the%20nuts%20on%20in%20the%20lower%20connecting%20bars%20anyway. Then%20you%20move%20the%20winch%20to%20higher%20winch%20attachment%20points%20near%20the%20middle%20and%20get%20enough%20tension%20on%20the%20winch%20line%20to%20bring%20the%20vehicles%20parallel%20and%20you%20can%20then%20slot%20in%20all%20the%20bolts%20in%20and%20tighten%20up%20all%20the%20nuts!
    The%20connecting%20bars%20are%20not%20designed%20to%20be%20all%20parallel%20to%20each%20other.%20Some%20need%20to%20be%20at%20angles%20so%20as%20to%20form%20rigid%20triangles%20both%20horizontally%20and%20vertically%20for%20stiffness. The%20\"deluxe\"%20or%20\"transformer\"%20version%20of%20the%20CATAMARAN%20vehicle%20could%20have%20the%20Y-sides%20%20connected%20by%20telescoping%20connecting%20tubes%20which%20could%20be%20extended%20by%20hydraulics%20and%20shortened%20by%20winches%20to%20allow%20the%20driver%20to%20change%20vehicle%20width%20at%20the%20touch%20of%20a%20button! When%20the%20two%20Y-sides%20are%20connected%20together,%20the%20steering%20mechanisms%20of%20the%20two%20Y-sides%20are%20mechanically%20coupled%20together%20and%20have%20powered%20steering%20as%20well! The%20CATAMARAN%20Vehicle%20still%20has%20V-shaped%20hulls%20to%20deflect%20the%20blast.%20It%20just%20has%202%20V-shaped%20hulls,%20each%20of%20half%20the%20width%20of%20a%20single%20V-shaped%20hull. The%20CATAMARAN%20Vehicle%20can%20have%20the%20same%20total%20area%20of%20V-shaped%20hull%20measured%20in%20the%20horizontal%20plane%20as%20a%20single-hulled%20MRAP! To%20lessen%20the%20blast%20forces%20tending%20to%20split%20the%20two%20V-shaped%20hulls%20apart,%20the%20Vs%20are%20angled%20slightly%20to%20form%20a%20vertical%20blast%20chimney. The%20CATAMARAN%20Vehicle%20twin-hull%20design%20does%20increase%20somewhat%20the%20total%20area%20and%20weight%20of%20the%20hull%20armour%20for%20the%20same%20protected%20area%20in%20the%20horizontal%20plane. Steel%20safety%20cables%20complement%20the%20connecting%20bars%20or%20tubes%20to%20provide%20additional%20hold%20between%20the%20two%20Y-sides%20to%20prevent%20the%20two%20Y-sides%20being%20blasted%20apart. There%20is%20not%20much%20more%20area%20in%20the%20horizontal%20plane%20for%20the%20explosive%20force%20to%20react%20with%20in%20the%20catamaran%20tank%20because%20the%20space%20between%20the%20two%20hulls%20is%20mostly%20empty%20space%20with%20just%20connecting%20bars%20or%20tubes! The%20benefit%20is%20this%20-%20it%20doesn't%20roll%20over! The%20catamaran%20tank%20-%20an%20MRAP%20which%20doesn't%20roll%20over! MRAP%20luggage%20compartments%20/%20trailers%20/%20passenger%20trailers MRAP%20luggage%20compartments%20/%20trailers%20/%20passenger%20trailers%20are%20something%20I%20want%20to%20feature%20in%20my%20new%20design. It%20isn't%20really%20a%20\"catamaran\"%20feature%20particularly%20because%20a%20mono-hull%20MRAP%20could%20have%20a%20luggage%20compartment,%20outside%20the%20armour-protected%20volume%20and%20trailers%20are%20already%20available%20for%20today's%20MRAPs.%20A%20trailer%20is%20a%20trailer,%20right? But%20I%20hear%20complaints%20from%20many%20sources%20about%20passenger%20cabins%20not%20being%20spacious,%20can't%20afford%20to%20make%20them%20smaller%20and%20so%20on. The%20thing%20is,%20if%20you%20always%20put%20the%20gear%20the%20troops%20are%20carrying%20(heavy%20guns%20and%20ammunition%20etc.)%20in%20a%20trailer%20it%20saves%20space%20in%20the%20passenger%20cabin%20right? So%20then%20the%20armoured%20passenger%20cabins%20could%20be%20made%20smaller,%20and%20the%20gear%20stored%20in%20a%20non-armoured%20volume,%20either%20a%20luggage%20compartment%20-%20a%20boot%20or%20a%20trunk%20which%20can%20be%20low,%20lowering%20centre%20of%20gravity,%20or%20in%20a%20trailer,%20which%20also%20takes%20the%20weight%20off%20the%20MRAP%20wheels%20which%20helps%20to%20prevent%20road%20collapse. So%20for%20all%20kinds%20of%20reasons%20I%20am%20thinking%20that%20pulling%20a%20luggage%20trailer%20and%20a%20non-armoured%20boot/trunk%20should%20be%20integral%20to%20a%20good%20MRAP%20design,%20not%20just%20an%20optional%20extra. So%20why%20don't%20MRAPs%20use%20trailers%20more,%20when%20road%20collapse,%20heavy%20weight%20on%20the%20wheels%20is%20such%20a%20problem? I%20know%20that%20to%20use%20or%20not%20to%20use%20a%20trailer%20is%20an%20operational%20decision%20that%20the%20military%20make%20but%20if%20anyone%20knew%20if%20trailers%20were%20a%20bad%20idea%20for%20some%20reason,%20then%20would%20you%20please%20point%20that%20out. OK%20for%20existing%20MRAPs%20(some%20of%20which%20don't%20have%20a%20fixed%20gun)%20I%20can%20see%20why%20the%20passengers%20want%20to%20keep%20their%20weapons%20with%20them%20so%20that%20they%20can%20dismount%20guns%20blazing. Frankly,%20a%20\"no%20fixed%20gun\"%20APC%20is%20a%20really%20bad%20design%20in%20my%20opinion.%20Even%20one%20gun%20is%20too%20little%20in%20my%20opinion. Defence%20against%20ambush%20is%20why%20you%20need%20fixed%20guns%20on%20every%20APC%20roof. My%20design%20would%20include%20a%20minimum%20of%20one%20gun%20on%20each%20side%20of%20the%20catamaran%20MRAP. Actually,%20I%20would%20like%204%20guns%20on%20top;%20that%20is%20possible%20and%20if%20you%20read%20on%20I%20will%20explain%20how. Only%20the%20guns%20and%20video%20cameras%20(2%20per%20gun,%20one%20wide-angle,%20the%20other%20telescopic%20sights)%20need%20to%20be%20on%20the%20roof.%20There%20is%20no%20need%20for%20a%20gunner%20up%20top%20in%20a%20gunner's%20turret%20with%20all%20the%20high%20up%20weight%20and%20instability%20that%20causes. The%20gunner%20can%20be%20sat%20in%20the%20cabin%20with%20the%20rest%20of%20the%20crew%20and%20fire%20and%20aim%20the%20gun%20from%20below. Think%20of%20a%20submarine%20periscope%20in%20terms%20of%20turning%20and%20aiming%20the%20gun,%20although%20the%20gunner%20would%20remain%20seated%20in%20one%20position%20if%20he%20(or%20she)%20views%20the%20gun%20camera%20views%20on%20a%20LCD%20display.%20Push%20buttons%20to%20change%20camera%20view%20and%20push%20button%20to%20fire. For%20reloading%20\"the%20periscope\"%20can%20come%20down%20to%20allow%20the%20gunner%20to%20reach%20the%20gun%20to%20reload%20in%20safety. 2%20or%204%20guns,%20medium%20machine%20guns%20can%20be%20up%20top%20and%20because%20there%20is%20no%20armour%20up%20there,%20it%20could%20work%20out%20with%20a%20lower%20centre%20of%20gravity%20than%20one%20gunner%20with%20an%20armoured%20turret. There%20is%20no%20reason%20why%20passengers%20cannot%20always%20carry%20a%20handgun%20which%20takes%20up%20no%20space.%20That%20and%20cover%20from%20fixed%20guns%20should%20be%20sufficient%20I%20would%20have%20thought. Sure%20I%20could%20imagine%20a%20scenario%20when%20you'd%20really%20like%20to%20fire%20a%20guided%20missile%20the%20second%20you%20open%20the%20passenger%20door. Well%20you%20still%20could%20do%20that%20and%20carry%20weapons%20inside%20in%20a%20smaller%20cabin%20if%20you%20were%20not%20carrying%20a%20full%20load%20of%20passengers.%20%20 MRAP%20armoured%20passenger%20trailers In%20fact,%20why%20not%20have%20an%20armoured%20trailer%20with%20a%20V-shaped%20hull%20(or%20two%20V-shaped%20hulls%20for%20a%20catamaran%20trailer)%20and%20carry%20some%20of%20the%20passengers%20there? Then%20you%20could%20really%20reduce%20the%20weight%20of%20the%20MRAP%20-%20a%20much%20smaller%20front%20cabin,%20much%20less%20volume%20needing%20protecting%20in%20the%20front%20vehicle,%20spreading%20the%20weight%20across%20more%20wheels. Of%20course%20an%20armoured%20passenger%20trailer%20would%20have%20guns%20of%20its%20own%20as%20well. I%20think%20the%20armoured%20passenger%20trailer%20idea%20is%20a%20winner,%20catamaran%20or%20no%20catamaran%20and%20it%20is%20a%20concern%20that%20existing%20MRAPs%20don't%20use%20this%20concept%20already.%20 The%20CATAMARAN%20vehicle%20can%20rotate%20on%20the%20spot! It%20is%20proposed%20that%20the%20CATAMARAN%20vehicle%20will%20have%20impressive%20manoeuvring%20and%20tight%20turning%20abilities,%20despite%20its%20size%20-%20including%20an%20ability%20to%20rotate%20on%20the%20spot%20as%20tracked%20tanks%20can%20do. The%20trailer,%20although%20optional,%20when%20it%20is%20fitted,%20it%20will%20be%20attached%20to%20the%20powered%20and%20driven%20front%20of%20the%20vehicle%20by%20hinges%20allowing%20the%20front%20and%20rear%20parts%20of%20the%20vehicle%20to%20pivot%20relative%20to%20each%20other%20in%20the%20vertical%20plane%20thus%20keeping%20the%20driven%20rear%20wheels%20on%20the%20ground%20but%20the%20hinges%20will%20not%20allow%20any%20relative%20movement%20to%20the%20left%20or%20right,%20so%20as%20to%20keep%20the%20body%20and%20the%20wheels%20in%20alignment. There%20are%203%20pairs%20of%20axles%20-
  • front%20wheel%20drive%20steered%20axles,%20(left%20and%20right)
  • rear%20wheel%20drive%20fixed%20axles,%20(left%20and%20right)%20and%20
  • trailer%20wheel%20steered%20axles,%20(left%20and%20right).
  • The%20trailer%20wheels%20will%20steer%20coupled%20to%20the%20front%20wheels%20but%20in%20an%20opposite%20clockwise%20/%20anti-clockwise%20sense%20to%20the%20front%20wheel. Each%20Y-side%20of%20the%20vehicle%20will%20have%204-wheels%20driven%20so%20with%20\"4-wheel%20drive\"%20on%20both%20the%20left%20and%20right%20Y-sides,%20one%20might%20note%20that%20the%20whole%20vehicle%20has%208%20driven%20wheels,%20not%20just%20the%204. CATAMARAN%20Vehicle%20Steering%20Geometry%20Normal%20steering What%20this%20arrangement%20allows%20is%20that%20even%20with%20the%20trailer%20fitted,%20the%20vehicle%20can%20be%20reversed%20easily.%20Normally%20trailers%20are%20a%20nightmare%20to%20reverse.%20The%20CATAMARAN%20vehicle%20will%20be%20a%20dream%20to%20reverse. In%20addition%20the%20CATAMARAN%20vehicle%20can%20rotate%20about%20a%20spot%20in%20the%20middle%20between%20the%20powered%20rear%20wheels.%20It%20achieves%20this%20special%20ability%20by%20virtue%20of%20certain%20design%20features%20-
    • A%20first%20gear%20which%20is%20a%20low%20gear%20for%20manoeuvring%20and%20has%20a%20gearing%20ratio%20precisely%20the%20same%20as%20the%20reverse%20gear Two%20additional%20rotational%20gear%20modes%20-
    • Clockwise%20-%20when%20the%20left%20side%20gearbox%20of%20the%20vehicle%20is%20automatically%20put%20into%20first%20gear%20and%20the%20right%20side%20gearbox%20of%20the%20vehicle%20is%20automatically%20put%20into%20reverse%20gear.
    • Anti-clockwise%20-%20%20when%20the%20left%20side%20gearbox%20of%20the%20vehicle%20is%20automatically%20put%20into%20reverse%20gear%20and%20the%20right%20side%20gearbox%20of%20the%20vehicle%20is%20automatically%20put%20into%20first%20gear
    When%20either%20clockwise%20or%20anti-clockwise%20gear%20is%20selected,%20the%20mechanical%20coupling%20normally%20engaged%20between%20the%20left%20and%20right%20hand%20steering%20is%20automatically%20disengaged%20and%20the%20left%20hand%20wheels%20are%20automatically%20turned%20to%20hard%20right%20hand%20turn%20lock%20and%20the%20right%20hand%20wheels%20are%20automatically%20turned%20to%20hard%20left%20hand%20turn%20lock;%20those%20two%20hard%20turn%20lock%20stops%20are%20designed%20so%20that%20the%20steered%20wheels%20are%20pointed%20in%20the%20correct%20direction%20for%20vehicle%20rotation. Whenever%20either%20of%20the%20two%20rotational%20gear%20modes%20is%20deselected%20and%20the%20gear%20shift%20is%20put%20into%20neutral,%20the%20mechanical%20coupling%20between%20left%20and%20right%20hand%20steering%20is%20re-engaged%20and%20the%20wheels%20returned%20to%20the%20appropriate%20direction%20as%20determined%20by%20the%20driver's%20steering%20wheel%20which%20was%20redundant%20during%20the%20selection%20of%20either%20of%20the%20rotational%20gears. CATAMARAN%20Vehicle%20Steering%20Geometry%20Rotational%20steering

    The CATAMARAN Vehicle vs. the MRAP. Which is better?

    Compare and contrast the features of the CATAMARAN Vehicle against the MRAP it is designed to replace.

    • The CATAMARAN vehicle is not taller than an MRAP with a gun turret.
    • Yes the CATAMARAN vehicle will be taller including the height of its guns than an MRAP without a gun turret but the CATAMARAN vehicle's automatic guns are quite light and don't raise the height of the centre of gravity much and maybe has a lower centre of gravity than an MRAP with a gun turret with armour and gunner up top as well.
    • The CATAMARAN vehicle can be the same width as an MRAP when configured narrow, such as Y1Y at 9 feet wide. It can be narrower, the same width or wider than a tank to suit the roads or terrain.
    • The CATAMARAN vehicle will be as fast as an MRAP without the trailer on a straight road. It will be much faster off road, with or without trailer, because it won't roll over and a rolled over MRAP is a slow as you can get; you'd be faster on a donkey!
    • The CATAMARAN vehicle will be as well armoured as an MRAP.
    • The CATAMARAN vehicle will have as much internal cargo space without the trailer and more internal cargo space with the trailer compared to an MRAP.
    • The CATAMARAN vehicle offers the possibility, depending on the width configuration, of additional external cargo space by strapping certain loads, which don't require armoured protection, to the connecting bars in between the two halves of the vehicle.
    • The CATAMARAN vehicle will very manoeuvrable even with the trailer attached so its length is no big deal.
    • The CATAMARAN vehicle will have more firepower than an MRAP. Two roof mounted machine guns without the trailer, 4 guns with the trailer.
    • The CATAMARAN vehicle is "ambush repellent". whereas the MRAP is only "ambush protected".
    • Terrorists going up against a CATAMARAN vehicle with RPGs and the like is a more risky proposition for them because the defenders have got 2 or 4 pairs of eyes watching for ambushes with their fingers on triggers to fight the attackers off.
    Conclusion

    The CATAMARAN vehicle is a better vehicle than MRAPs for any conflict where MRAPs are now the vehicle of choice.

    More details of the CATAMARAN Vehicle here.


    Last edited by Peter_Dow on Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:36 am; edited 2 times in total
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    blackdog
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    PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 10:57 pm
    Post subject: Re: Design concepts for next-generation all-terrain MRAPs

    I think the real question here is: will the CATAMARAN be able to carry Battle Boxes or M113 Gavins to the fight?!
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    JimWeb
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    PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 1:10 am
    Post subject: Re: Design concepts for next-generation all-terrain MRAPs

    - blackdog
    I think the real question here is: will the CATAMARAN be able to carry Battle Boxes or M113 Gavins to the fight?!


    Actually I think the real question here is - has he been skipping his medication?

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    Doug_Kibbey
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    PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 6:04 am
    Post subject: Re: Design concepts for next-generation all-terrain MRAPs

    The concept and presentation do look eerily familiar.
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    Michel_Krauss
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    PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:32 am
    Post subject: Re: Design concepts for next-generation all-terrain MRAPs

    - JimWeb
    Actually I think the real question here is - has he been skipping his medication?


    I think he has been taking to much of something ....

    I made an check at the text at the for freedom forum also, and I would like to suggest some small corrections for the catamaran MRAP?
    - first of all, the load at the steering axle is max 40% (this figure is lower for steering and driven axle's) of the GVW because the steering axle is not as strong as the non-steering one's
    So the load distrubution have to be reconsidered
    - About the steering. Because you want to connect the vehicle's with bars, how do want to connect the steering mechanisme of the 2 vehicle's
    - Because all connection bars are intended to fix one vehicle rigid to the other vehicle, there will be serious trouble with overall road performance. Especialy at poor quality roads, which will give an lot of material stress at the joints;
    - Problem may be the overall width of the vehicle in dagerous locations. For each side of the catamaran will be approx 2.5m, so 5m total for the 2 vehicle's add the connection bars of 2m each, an estimated total of 6.5m overall width

    Final question: how those design perform in mountainous terrain ?
    With it's narrow, bad quality roads and same quality bridge's ?


    Michel Mr. Green

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    Tanklord
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    PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:48 am
    Post subject: Re: Design concepts for next-generation all-terrain MRAPs

    - blackdog
    I think the real question here is: will the CATAMARAN be able to carry Battle Boxes or M113 Gavins to the fight?!


    Ah Hell No! Please Blackdog, you must never use the G word when talking of the M113. You have been warned!


    Just kidding, but that subject is verboten here!

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    Peter_Dow
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    PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 12:13 pm
    Post subject: Re: Design concepts for next-generation all-terrain MRAPs

    - Michel_Krauss
    I made an check at the text at the for freedom forum also, and I would like to suggest some small corrections for the catamaran MRAP?
    - first of all, the load at the steering axle is max 40% (this figure is lower for steering and driven axle's) of the GVW because the steering axle is not as strong as the non-steering one's
    So the load distrubution have to be reconsidered

    OK Michel you asked a number of questions and made a number of points and I hope to discuss them all in due course but for right now I'd like to post the text and image you are referring to so that others can post their opinions about it here as well.

    What I'd like to suggest Michel is that because vehicles are very often designed to have more weight on the rear axle, the designers of such "rear-axle-heavy" vehicles been able to use a lighter front axle, lighter front suspension, lighter front wheels as well. They could have made the front equally strong but since it didn't have to be, they didn't so as to save weight. Fair enough.

    However, if like here, I am designing a new vehicle from scratch and I have good reasons to want equal weights on each axle (such as wanting to spread the weight around all the axles evenly to help to cope with poor quality roads which might collapse under the weight) then I can specify an equally as strong front, rear and trailer axle.



    The image shows some vital statistics for my proposed CATAMARAN vehicle, only one Y-side is pictured.

    The front powered and driven vehicle seats a maximum of 10, 5 in either Y-side.

    Each side seats 5 =
    • 1 - one driver or reserve driver or front passenger +
    • 2 - one front gunner and one rear gunner +
    • 2 - two passengers
    The trailer seats a maximum of 6, 3 in either Y-side

    Each side seats 3 =
    • 2 - two passengers +
    • 1 - one tail gunner
    So the vehicle with trailer attached seats a maximum of 16, 8 in either Y-side.

    Each side seats 8 =
    • 1 - one driver or reserve driver or front passenger +
    • 3 - one front gunner, one rear gunner and one tail gunner +
    • 4 - four passengers.
    The driver can be either on the left or on the right Y-side and then the reserve driver or front passenger would be on the right or left Y-side, respectively.

    Weight distribution

    The image also shows the ideal weight distribution in relation to the axles.

    Each square represents the same weight and length which is
    • one eighth of the weight and length of the combined vehicle with trailer,
    • one fifth of the weight and length of the front powered and driven vehicle and
    • one third of the weight and length of the trailer.
    Designing the vehicle to have this weight distribution helps to keep the vehicle well balanced in terms of equal weights over each axle which allows for the same suspension and tyres to be used through-out and maintains this balance with or without the trailer attached.
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    Peter_Dow
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    PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 1:19 pm
    Post subject: Re: Design concepts for next-generation all-terrain MRAPs

    - Michel_Krauss
    - About the steering. Because you want to connect the vehicle's with bars, how do want to connect the steering mechanisme of the 2 vehicle's


    "Mechanically" is what I have specified so far.

    I have also specified "power steering" (after all if the trailer is attached, there are 8 wheels to steer!)

    I have also specified that for the two rotational gears (clockwise and anti-clockwise) the steering is disengaged from the wheels, and the wheels are turned by the power steering to the appropriate positions for rotation.

    I have not specified exactly how the mechanical connection between the steering of both sides is arranged, whether by a rod or a cables or whatever.

    Essentially the two steering wheels would be locked together. So if you turn one steering in one driver's cabin, it turns the steering wheel in the other driver's cabin. If the two people in the driving seats disagree about who is driving it could be fun! Mr. Green


    - Michel_Krauss
    - Because all connection bars are intended to fix one vehicle rigid to the other vehicle, there will be serious trouble with overall road performance. Especialy at poor quality roads, which will give an lot of material stress at the joints;


    So the connecting bars and the components which attach them to the Y-sides will need to be strong enough to cope.

    - Michel_Krauss
    - - Problem may be the overall width of the vehicle in dagerous locations. For each side of the catamaran will be approx 2.5m, so 5m total for the 2 vehicle's add the connection bars of 2m each, an estimated total of 6.5m overall width

    No each side, as an example I have said the individual Y-sides would be 4 feet = 1 metre 22 cm wide.

    I have given 3 example total widths
    9 feet = 2 metres 74 cm (as wide as an MRAP)
    12 feet = 3 metres 66 cm (as wide as a tank)
    16 feet = 4 metres 88 cm (wide!)

    So you are way out with your figures Michel.

    - Michel_Krauss
    - Final question: how those design perform in mountainous terrain ?
    With it's narrow, bad quality roads and same quality bridge's ?

    The CATAMARAN vehicle (at least the wheeled version I am considering now) is designed as an MRAP replacement, not as a tank replacement, so it performs better than an MRAP on slopes because of its lateral stability in wider configurations, not better than a tank or a tracked vehicle.

    In the CATAMARAN vehicle's narrow oonfiguration, it can squeeze between any gap that a 9 feet wide MRAP can.
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    Dontos
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    PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 3:05 pm
    Post subject: Re: Design concepts for next-generation all-terrain MRAPs

    Doug

    I agree. My first impression.

    Amazing that the 'G' word was evoked, I think you & I are on the same page.....

    Don
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    C_Sherman
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    PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 5:36 pm
    Post subject: Re: Design concepts for next-generation all-terrain MRAPs

    Hi,

    s0.ilike.com/play#Styx...b93c053112

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    PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 6:27 pm
    Post subject: Re: Design concepts for next-generation all-terrain MRAPs

    - C_Sherman


    You're a bad man, Chuck. Laughing

    I'd print this out and run it by the folks at the local "Force Protection" manufacturing facility, but I'm afraid it would sacrifice any chances of a return visit.

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    Joe_D
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    PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 7:45 pm
    Post subject: Re: Design concepts for next-generation all-terrain MRAPs

    Interesting,

    Looking at the design, it kinda reminds me of this thing,

    Engineer vehicle with Ground Penetrating Radar

    Don't ask me the official name.

    A very narrow crew compartment with "V" hull providing minimum exposure to blast. Lash two of these side by side, remove the inside set of wheels, and now you have facsimile to your Catamaran vehicle.

    With your idea a mine blast coming from below would have a hard time penetrating the hull, being that the inside there is no area for the blast to concentrate on. The angled outside would also deflect most away at the proposed angle. The major problem I see is with side attack IED's, like an EFP, And those my friends, are real killers, having witnessed their nasty capabilities. As with MRAPS and all their kin (In fact ALL Armored vehicles), you cannot account for all angles of attack short of designing a vehicle that looks like TWO CONES MATED VERTICALLY, and the new armor packets do not take kindly to compound curves. But I do applaud your effort in trying to find a solution. Ours in 2006-07 was try not to get hit in the first place, utilizing different countermeasures, speeds, configurations, and other tactics that I won't mention, but that's like whistling in the dark Neutral .

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    bsmart
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    PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 7:56 pm
    Post subject: Re: Design concepts for next-generation all-terrain MRAPs

    - Tanklord
    - blackdog
    I think the real question here is: will the CATAMARAN be able to carry Battle Boxes or M113 Gavins to the fight?!


    Ah Hell No! Please Blackdog, you must never use the G word when talking of the M113. You have been warned!


    Just kidding, but that subject is verboten here!


    Not only is it verboten here (unless you enjoy being the but of continuing abuse) it is also not considered appropriate in any civilized society. Farting loudly when you have a chance to ask the President a question on Live National Television or when being introduced to Queen Elizabeth would be considered a minor gaf compared to combining M113 and the name of an Airborne general in the same phrase

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    Peter_Dow
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    PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:45 pm
    Post subject: Telescopic rear axle armoured vehicle - easy!

    OK well I have to admit there are a few problems with my CATAMARAN vehicle design.

    • Heavier armour for the same volume protected
    • The inner sides required to be armoured and connected together and that all adds weight. Precisely how much more weight is difficult to predict but a significant thickness of additional armour required certainly
    Therefore I am now turning to a different and easier idea to solve the roll-over problem for MRAP armoured vehicles - telescopic rear axles.

    Telescopic Rear Axles. Extended - Wide.
    Telescopic%20Rear%20Axles.%20Collapsed%20-%20Narrow.

    Hydraulic cylinders components are available to be adapted for this purpose.

    The axles would need to be braced vertically to stop them bending under the weight of the vehicle.

    Certain design concepts I have previously described for the CATAMARAN vehicle which I do want to retain for the telescopic rear axle design, such as

    • Trailer wheel steering
    • Armoured passenger trailer
    • Rotation on the spot
    • Roof mounted remote-controlled machine guns
    • 5 : 3 ratio, 5 (vehicle) : 3 (trailer), weight and length distribution
    Therefore the telescopic rear axle design although it is perhaps a less radical and innovative mono-hull design than the CATAMARAN Vehicle design, nevertheless it has many excellent features which greatly enhance the performance over the standard MRAP.

    So I await with interest to see if anyone can identify flaws with my second major design iteration.
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    Peter_Dow
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    Joined: Jul 31, 2010
    Posts: 9

    PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 2:12 pm
    Post subject: Re: Design concepts for next-generation all-terrain MRAPs

    Armoured Personnel Carrier Designed by Peter Dow.

    Features
    • Front vehicle seats a maximum of 11 people
    • Armoured passenger trailer seats a maximum of 7 people
    • Vehicle with trailer seats a maximum of 18 people
    • Roof mounted remote-controlled machine guns
    • Trailer wheel steering
    • Telescopic Rear Axle & Wheels
    • Rotation on the spot
    • Even axle weight distribution
    • 5 : 3 weight & length ratio, 5 (vehicle) : 3 (trailer)


    More details ...
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