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Panther Ausf. A (n° 201) - priviously in Saumur Tank Museum
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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bialy-r
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:36 am
Post subject: Panther Ausf. A (n° 201) - priviously in Saumur Tank Museum

This tank was previously part of the Saumur Tank Museum collection, and was exchanged in 2010
against 2 modern German military vehicles. It is now part of the King Abdallah of Jordan collection (http://www.lexpress.fr/ )

For me this exchange make none sense!


ps. have anybody informations about King Abdallah of Jordan collection or other Military Museum in Jordan ?
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Pzkpfw-e
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:44 am
Post subject: Re: Panther Ausf. A (n° 201) - priviously in Saumur Tank Museum

Nonsense for whom?
Saumur's got Panthers coming out of their ears (3, including a runner, plus a BergPanther & a JagdPanther), the King's building himself a nice collection (There's a Hetzer there already).
The question of politics is raised, or maybe Sarkozy fancies Queen Rania?
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Massimo_Foti
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:48 am
Post subject: Re: Panther Ausf. A (n° 201) - priviously in Saumur Tank Museum

It's not an Hetzer, it's a swiss G-13 disguised as Hetzer. There should be a dedicated thread somewhere.

Massimo
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the_shadock
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:03 am
Post subject: Re: Panther Ausf. A (n° 201) - priviously in Saumur Tank Museum

- Pzkpfw-e
Nonsense for whom?
Saumur's got Panthers coming out of their ears (3, including a runner, plus a BergPanther & a JagdPanther), the King's building himself a nice collection (There's a Hetzer there already).
The question of politics is raised, or maybe Sarkozy fancies Queen Rania?


I think there are also a Panzer IV and a StuG III in the collection.

P-O

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bialy-r
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Panther Ausf. A (n° 201) - priviously in Saumur Tank Mu

There is also

Rolls Royce Armoured Car in The Royal Automobile Museum, Amman (Jordan)

What Saumur get for the Panther ?
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Michel_Krauss
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Panther Ausf. A (n° 201) - priviously in Saumur Tank Mu

According the article 2 German AFV's of little value

So I think the most likely Leopard 1 MBT or Leopard 1 based AA tank Cheetah
They are becoming osolete and are available in large numbers and as such have little value

And if the translation of the French article is correct it was more a political exchange / gift then a real trade

So what is the value of that Confused Confused

Michel


ps

While searching for the King Abduallah of Jordan collection I found a piece about an exchange between the Czech tank museum and the Jordan collection
Czech traded a T54 and 2 OT-810 for a M47 tank and a Ford MUTT
www.mzv.cz/amman/en/ne...hange.html

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bialy-r
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 1:17 am
Post subject: Re: Panther Ausf. A (n° 201) - priviously in Saumur Tank Mu

The collection could have this:

Otter Light Reconnaissance Car
www.flickr.com/photos/...801566042/

But the main question is: what other vehicles the collection could have ?

We known:

PzKpfw IV, PzKpfw V Panther, Stug, Hetzer (G-13 modified), Otter, OT-810, T-54.

For sure some of Jordanian vehicles:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...Land_Force


We don't known from how long the King is collecting AFV.
That is very interesting topic and I hope the time will show what AFV are preserved in Jordan.

ps.
The Royal Automobile Museum, Amman
www.royalautomobilemus...o/main.asp
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VonForhud
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 4:16 am
Post subject: Re: Panther Ausf. A (n° 201) - priviously in Saumur Tank Museum

If someone like him starts collecting, the price will skyrocket for any parts and hulls you can find.

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Pzkpfw-e
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 9:29 am
Post subject: Re: Panther Ausf. A (n° 201) - priviously in Saumur Tank Museum

Heading the same way as WW2 planes?
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the_shadock
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 12:51 pm
Post subject: Re: Panther Ausf. A (n° 201) - priviously in Saumur Tank Mu

- Michel_Krauss
And if the translation of the French article is correct it was more a political exchange / gift then a real trade


hello,

that's true, for me it is more a "political gift" than a real trade. The Saumur tank museum association, which gathers all the volunteers, was against this trade and didn't want to give this Panther against modern AFVs.

However, it was imposed by the President Sarkozy himself. The exchange doesn't seem fair to me.

On French forums, some arguments were raised. Given that the Panther is considered as "French historical heritage", is the President allowed to give the French heritage to a private collector, just to have better relations with him?

The problem is that this is a German vehicle, so I doubt we could consider it as "French historical or technical heritage". Now, there is the financial aspect of the problem. Many persons know the value of that tank, and people also know that some interesting projects could have been undertaken (likle raising new storage buildings) for the museum, if the vehicle was sold to its real price.

There were 2 different French forums on which this question was discussed, and after few days the moderators decided to close the topic, because people became very angry and agressive. It seems that this "affair" raises the angryness of French military enthusiasts against the President and the Government.

Anyway, the tank is still in France today, it was transferred on a French airforce base, waiting to be loaded in a Jordan transport aircraft.

Pierre-Olivier

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toadmanstankpictures
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 10:45 am
Post subject: Re: Panther Ausf. A (n° 201) - priviously in Saumur Tank Museum

Over on Missing-lynx, they're saying that the Panther was traded for a Challenger and a Saladin.

Sounds like trading one of your star players for a 5th round draft pick and 7th round draft pick.

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Pzkpfw-e
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:41 am
Post subject: Re: Panther Ausf. A (n° 201) - priviously in Saumur Tank Museum

Must be some back-handers involved!
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jtrowbridge5
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:42 am
Post subject: Re: Panther Ausf. A (n° 201) - priviously in Saumur Tank Mu

chris what does this mean in english????
"Sounds like trading one of your star players for a 5th round draft pick and 7th round draft pick".
I think the translation goes something like "they exchanged the Panther for a load of crap"

Dennis
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Massimo_Foti
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:13 pm
Post subject: Re: Panther Ausf. A (n° 201) - priviously in Saumur Tank Museum

Chris, I am afraid you have to translate for non nordamerican people. We have no draft picks here in Europe Smile

For the sake of our european fellows, I'll try a football metaphor. It's like Barcelona trading Messi for Pellisier and Moscardelli from Chievo (italian first division players)

Massimo
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jtrowbridge5
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Panther Ausf. A (n° 201) - priviously in Saumur Tank Mu

MASSIMO,
Your explanation is almost as bad,Spanish and Italian preMadonnas uggg. still think my interpretation is the best
Cheers
Dennis
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