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Origins of the Littlefield Panther A
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Rikard_Hufschmied
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 6:07 am
Post subject: Origins of the Littlefield Panther A

What a treasurechest the "detektorweb.cz" site turned out to be, but since my knowledge of the Czech language is limited (read close to nothing) the clicking is very much "trail n error" Smile

Among the many, many pictures of salvaged/recovered armor I came across pictures of what must be Mr. Littlefield's Panther A pre and post salvage.

The Panther before being pulled from the Czarna Nida river:

Left%20side%20track%20is%20detaching%20during%20pulling: Left%20side%20track%20is%20gone: Upside%20down%20(this%20picture%20and%20the%20one%20following%20has%20been%20widely%20spread%20on%20the%20net%20though): Panther%20rear: Detail%20of%20one%20of%20the%20peculiar%20side%20fittings: Finally%20a%20picture%20from%20the%20scrapyard%20where%20the%20Panther%20is%20said%20to%20have%20been%20rediscovered.%20The%20only%20other%20pictures%20I've%20seen%20of%20this%20showed%20the%20Panther%20with%20\"quilt\"%20turret%20and%20a%20close%20up%20of%20the%20Stug,%20this%20picture%20clearly%20shows%20another%20Panther%20A%20hull%20to%20the%20far%20left.%20The%20initial%20report%20on%20this%20scrapyard%20spoke%20of%20several%20Panthers:

And there's lots more, I'll be scouting this page for days ...

Cheers,
Rik

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Last edited by Rikard_Hufschmied on Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:37 pm; edited 3 times in total
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toadmanstankpictures
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 7:52 am
Post subject: Re: Origins of the Littlefield Panther A

Rik,
Would you happen to know who took the original photos? Any help would be most appreciated.

Regards,
Chris

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Rikard_Hufschmied
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 9:39 am
Post subject: Re: Origins of the Littlefield Panther A

- toadmanstankpictures
Rik,
Would you happen to know who took the original photos? Any help would be most appreciated.

Regards,
Chris


Chris,

Sadly no, no credits anywhere. Most of the pictures just say "source: internet" . I'd love to see some more pictures of that scrapyard.

Cheers,
Rik

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toadmanstankpictures
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 9:48 am
Post subject: Re: Origins of the Littlefield Panther A

Rik,
Thanks for the quick response. Too bad about the lack of picture credit. I'd like to use them for some sort of publication when the restoration is completed but won't unless I get permission. Oh well...the search continues.

Regards,
Chris

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mark67
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 12:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Origins of the Littlefield Panther A

- Rikard_Hufschmied

Upside down (this picture and the one following has been widely spread on the net though):

Panther%20rear: Detail%20of%20one%20of%20the%20peculiar%20side%20fittings:


Those pictures were published in Polish (no longer existng) magazine "Militaria" Vol.2 No.2/96. They are credited to Piotr Mrozowski and made in summer 1991 soon after recovery.

HTH

Marek
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Rikard_Hufschmied
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 6:56 pm
Post subject: Re: Origins of the Littlefield Panther A

- mark67
Those pictures were published in Polish (no longer existng) magazine "Militaria" Vol.2 No.2/96. They are credited to Piotr Mrozowski and made in summer 1991 soon after recovery.

HTH

Marek


Marek,

Thank You for the information. Is there any additional information in the article like where the Panther was found and recovered?

Cheers,
Rik

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Rikard_Hufschmied
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 7:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Origins of the Littlefield Panther A

Hmm ...

Come to think of it, picture nr.2 where the track is coming loose looks very much like a still from a VHS tape transfer ... hmm

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mark67
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:37 pm
Post subject: Re: Origins of the Littlefield Panther A

- Rikard_Hufschmied
Is there any additional information in the article like where the Panther was found and recovered?

Hi Rik,
Of course there are that information. Because that Panther is pretty famous, I did not give those information.
Anyway This Panther was recovered in Poland in 1991 from small river called Czarna Nida. After recovery it was sold to privet German collector. That was situation when the article was prepared. For you information after that time, German collector resold Panther to Polish first owners, which sold it to Littlefield collection. Now on Toadman page you can see how looks today.
This Panther is famous because mysterious "fittings' on hull sides - which were unfortunately removed by Littlefield team (I do not now why?). Maybe Toadman can explain it as apparently he is close to the team?
BTW there was some more photos in this article plus 1/35 drawing of Panther with this 'fittings", which were asymmetric.

HTH

Marek
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Rikard_Hufschmied
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 11:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Origins of the Littlefield Panther A

- mark67
- Rikard_Hufschmied
Is there any additional information in the article like where the Panther was found and recovered?

Hi Rik,
Of course there are that information. Because that Panther is pretty famous, I did not give those information.
Anyway This Panther was recovered in Poland in 1991 from small river called Czarna Nida. After recovery it was sold to privet German collector. That was situation when the article was prepared. For you information after that time, German collector resold Panther to Polish first owners, which sold it to Littlefield collection. Now on Toadman page you can see how looks today.
This Panther is famous because mysterious "fittings' on hull sides - which were unfortunately removed by Littlefield team (I do not now why?). Maybe Toadman can explain it as apparently he is close to the team?
BTW there was some more photos in this article plus 1/35 drawing of Panther with this 'fittings", which were asymmetric.

HTH

Marek



Hi Marek,

That's the same information I had but it was more or less unconfirmed, to much conflicting info has been reported on this Panther. I've been following the restoration of this Panther pretty much since day one Smile

There has been many theories on those side fittings, the consensus I believe was that it was a non-standard/makeshift field modification for fitting of "Nebelwerfer" launchers. That probably also explains why the Littlefield crew didn't keep them

Any chance on a post of those other pictures and the drawing?

Thanks,
Rik

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mark67
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:50 am
Post subject: Re: Origins of the Littlefield Panther A

Rik,

For sure that modification was not "field" - there were side toolholder frames relocated because those fittings and it was done before tank was covered by zimmerit. As you probably know there are 2 pictures of Tiger I with this fittings. Personaly I am after theory that those fittings were for light composite side armour but nobody knows for sure as there are not German documents about this modification.
Well, yes I can post them here as well.

Best regards,

Marek


Last edited by mark67 on Wed Oct 11, 2006 11:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mark67
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 11:52 am
Post subject: Re: Origins of the Littlefield Panther A

Ok then. Promissed photos from "Militaria"

HTH
Marek
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Rikard_Hufschmied
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:32 pm
Post subject: Re: Origins of the Littlefield Panther A

Excellent!

Thank You Marek, and I agree that the "Nebelwerfer field modification" theory is just not that viable seeing this. Add-on side armor is much more likely and also makes a lot more sense. Extra armor on the sponson sides was much needed on the Ausf. A to increase survivability, and something the Germans also sought to rectify on the Ausf. G.

Thanks again! Cheers,
Rik

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Dennis_Smith
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Posts: 192

PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 10:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Origins of the Littlefield Panther A

[quote]What a treasurechest the "detektorweb.cz" site turned out to be, but since my knowledge of the Czech language is limited (read close to nothing) the clicking is very much "trail n error"


Hi Rikard,

Thanks for posting that website, I've been enjoying it. I'm using a Czech to English translator (not perfect, but it helps a lot). Have you tried this one?

www.translation-guide....to=English
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toadmanstankpictures
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Posts: 696

PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 11:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Origins of the Littlefield Panther A

- mark67
- Rikard_Hufschmied
Is there any additional information in the article like where the Panther was found and recovered?

Hi Rik,
Of course there are that information. Because that Panther is pretty famous, I did not give those information.
Anyway This Panther was recovered in Poland in 1991 from small river called Czarna Nida. After recovery it was sold to privet German collector. That was situation when the article was prepared. For you information after that time, German collector resold Panther to Polish first owners, which sold it to Littlefield collection. Now on Toadman page you can see how looks today.
This Panther is famous because mysterious "fittings' on hull sides - which were unfortunately removed by Littlefield team (I do not now why?). Maybe Toadman can explain it as apparently he is close to the team?
BTW there was some more photos in this article plus 1/35 drawing of Panther with this 'fittings", which were asymmetric.

HTH

Marek


From what I've been told, the Littlefield team thought that the fittings were for some sort of standoff armor. Since they're not really sure of what they're for, the fittings were removed until they're actual use can be determined. I'll see if I can find out more during one of my upcoming visits, say in 2-3 weeks.

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