±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!
Panther II
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Pzkpfw-e
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jul 21, 2010
Posts: 1182

PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 11:15 am
Post subject: Re: Panther II

- Smashy
A small series of 24 Ausf G were produced in 1944 fitted with the steel road wheels and I think this was one of them.

The 'Panther II' designation may actually be a mistake?


Two different beasties.
The steel wheeled Panther G were used by the LSSAH in the Ardennes,
libellule.heavy.jp/sit...herSW.html


The Panther II was very similar, www.achtungpanzer.com/...her-ii.htm

Panther dimensions
Lenght: 6.88m (w/o the gun)
8.86m (with the gun) 6.88m (w/o the gun)
8.86m (with the gun)
Width: 3.40m 3.40m
Height: 2.98m 2.98m

Panther II Dimensions
Length: 6.60m (w/o the gun)
-.–m (with the gun)
Width: 3.40m
Height: 2.90m

The key is, of course, the Fahrgestell number wrote large across the glacis plate.
Back to top
View user's profile
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 15, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 2:42 pm
Post subject: Re: Panther II

- Smashy
A small series of 24 Ausf G were produced in 1944 fitted with the steel road wheels and I think this was one of them.



The 'Panther II' designation may actually be a mistake?


I am not sure I'm following the argument here, or are we talking about different tanks. The tank at Fort Knox doesn't have Panther suspension or Panther steel road wheels, it has Panther II suspension.

Unique ID 71: Fort Knox Panther II

In a nutshell the Panther and Tiger were characterized by interleaved roadwheel suspension and the Panther II and Tiger II were characterized by simpler overlapped suspension.

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 5:30 am
Post subject: Re: Panther II

- Koluchiy
Thank you for answer.
Do you have (or can make) some engine photos?


Koluchiy

I'll try to get some 'open hatch' photos, if I have time on my next 'behind the walls' visit. I generally only have an hour or so of 'play time' when I do my visits. From this, I try to do one or two detailed photo sessions.

This might take a week or two due to a rather long list of 'TO DO' tasks that I am currently working on.

Regards
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
jtrowbridge5
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 234

PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 1:16 pm
Post subject: Panther Schmalturm Turret

the only Panther Schmalturm Turret is at Bovington
Dennis


jtrowbridge5.smugmug.c...oTx#P-1-10
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Smashy
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Aug 05, 2010
Posts: 112

PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 3:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Panther II

We await Dontos's measurement of the armour thickness's....

Some images of the suspension would be nice?

_________________
Smashy
Back to top
View user's profile
JeffStringer
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 632

PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:37 pm
Post subject: Re: Panther II

Here's some pictures of the suspension www.peachmountain.com/..._tank.aspx and I'm pretty sure the armor thickness is documented somewhere on the Internet.


- Jeff
Back to top
View user's profile
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:40 am
Post subject: Re: Panther II

In a brief conversation with an 'Officially Informed Source', (... an OIS...!?), I inquired about the possibility of a 'wayward' Panther 'G' hull without a turret here at Ft Knox.

Here is what I learned, IRT the 'Story of the Panther II':

When the Panther II was captured, it did not have a turret mounted, but 'weighted' compensation plates in lieu of a turret, for test purposes. It was 'tagged' and transported to APG, where it went through technical inspection.

In the early 70's, the Panther II arrived at Ft Knox. It had a turret, the late model 'G' turret (w/ 'chin' armor).

A project was begun to restore an operational Panther, the Panther II was selected of the two 'Panthers' now at Ft Knox. Both vehicles were totally disassembled, the parts missing from the Panther II, needed for a complete restoration, were to be taken off of the Panther 'G'.

At some point during the restoration, (circa 1973...?)it was found that due to the increased armor of the 'Panther II', certain common hull parts could not be used from the 'donor' Panther. The interior dimensions were different.

The project was eventually completed with the introduction of the operationally restored 'Panther II'.

For some unknown reason, the remaining parts, were crated up and stored, instead of being remounted back into the Panther 'G', resulting in a fairly disassembled 'shell' of a tank, which is the current condition of the Panther 'G'.

So...., if there is (or was) a SN matching Panther ausf G hull to the turret of the Panther II (SN 121455) it would be ( or have been..) at APG.

Regards
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 4641
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:03 am
Post subject: Re: Panther II

Thanks Don, among other things the different interior dimensions confirm it's a Panther II
Back to top
View user's profile
JeffStringer
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 632

PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:43 am
Post subject: Re: Panther II

There was never a doubt in my mind.


- Jeff
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 4641
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:45 am
Post subject: Re: Panther II

- JeffStringer
There was never a doubt in my mind.

Neither in mine, but I try to keep my mind open.

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
Pzkpfw-e
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jul 21, 2010
Posts: 1182

PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:49 am
Post subject: Re: Panther II

As has been noted before, a quick look at the suspension and a read of the Fr number reveals all.
I've never seen any pictures of it "as captured", with weights, there's several of the VK3001, including some taken at Paderborn (?), where it's lurking behind Bovingdon's Tiger II & Jagdtiger, with its weights mounted.
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 22, 2006
Posts: 4632
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 11:47 am
Post subject: Re: Panther II

- Dontos
In a brief conversation with an 'Officially Informed Source', (... an OIS...!?), I inquired about the possibility of a 'wayward' Panther 'G' hull without a turret here at Ft Knox.

Here is what I learned, IRT the 'Story of the Panther II':

When the Panther II was captured, it did not have a turret mounted, but 'weighted' compensation plates in lieu of a turret, for test purposes. It was 'tagged' and transported to APG, where it went through technical inspection.

In the early 70's, the Panther II arrived at Ft Knox. It had a turret, the late model 'G' turret (w/ 'chin' armor).

A project was begun to restore an operational Panther, the Panther II was selected of the two 'Panthers' now at Ft Knox. Both vehicles were totally disassembled, the parts missing from the Panther II, needed for a complete restoration, were to be taken off of the Panther 'G'.

At some point during the restoration, (circa 1973...?)it was found that due to the increased armor of the 'Panther II', certain common hull parts could not be used from the 'donor' Panther. The interior dimensions were different.

The project was eventually completed with the introduction of the operationally restored 'Panther II'.

For some unknown reason, the remaining parts, were crated up and stored, instead of being remounted back into the Panther 'G', resulting in a fairly disassembled 'shell' of a tank, which is the current condition of the Panther 'G'.

So...., if there is (or was) a SN matching Panther ausf G hull to the turret of the Panther II (SN 121455) it would be ( or have been..) at APG.

Regards
Don


"Parts cannibalization" had always been part of my understanding, but didn't know which way the flow was.

In 1971, the only Panther on display was inside the old Patton Museum and I crawled all over it, but took no pictures. It had a fairly complete turret (from the outside) and I think track on both sides. I might be wrong about the track. IIRC, it was gray.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 11:40 am
Post subject: Re: Panther II

UPDATE:

It seems that during the restoration (in 1973..) when both Panthers were disassembled, there was a 'turret swap'. This is based on information gathered today while in RMP.

The Panther 'G' currently in RMP is officially listed as SN 121455. That is the same Fahrgestell Nr as found on the Panther II turret.

This means that the actual turret on the RMP Panther 'G', is the turret which originally arrived here at Ft Knox with (mounted on...) the Panther II.

It is unknown if the data plates are located in the Panther 'G', but I will try to gain access to the tanks interior to photograph it, and hopefully locate the data plates. Perhaps we can then determine the turret SN, and possibly determine where the turret originated.

BTW: The engine in the Panther II is the rebuilt engine from the Panther 'G'. The original Panther II engine is crated up in storage at RMP.

Obviously, more to follow
Regards
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
piney
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Republic of Southern New Jersey
PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 2:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Panther II

Here are two pictures from an ebay posting claimed to show the schmalturm reportedly taken to Aberdeen, that has apparently been lost to time

_________________
The only good skwerril is a dead un
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
JeffStringer
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 632

PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 3:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Panther II

But you know, no turret was ever built for the Panther II. It was reported to be similar to the schmalturm being built for the Panther F but the Panther II project was dropped in early 1943 before any of that was developed.


- Jeff
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 2 of 4
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum