±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: DIEGO38
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6597

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 103
Total: 103
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Downloads
02: Community Forums
03: Community Forums
04: Photo Gallery
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: Home
14: Photo Gallery
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Photo Gallery
20: Photo Gallery
21: Community Forums
22: Photo Gallery
23: Community Forums
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: Photo Gallery
27: News Archive
28: Home
29: Community Forums
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Photo Gallery
33: Home
34: Home
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Photo Gallery
40: Community Forums
41: Photo Gallery
42: Photo Gallery
43: Community Forums
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: News Archive
47: Photo Gallery
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Photo Gallery
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Community Forums
56: Photo Gallery
57: Community Forums
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Community Forums
62: Photo Gallery
63: Community Forums
64: Downloads
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: Photo Gallery
69: Photo Gallery
70: Community Forums
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Photo Gallery
75: Photo Gallery
76: Community Forums
77: Community Forums
78: Community Forums
79: Community Forums
80: Photo Gallery
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Photo Gallery
84: Photo Gallery
85: Downloads
86: Community Forums
87: Community Forums
88: Photo Gallery
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Photo Gallery
92: Community Forums
93: Photo Gallery
94: Photo Gallery
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Home
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Something old
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 28, 2006
Posts: 2024
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:52 pm
Post subject: Something old

Spotted this pulling into Richardson tank park yesterday,

I knew it was coming after talking with one of the Museum Specialists the day before. I was there checking on, what else, some M60's. I didn't expect it that morning and figured I'd be on my way home before it got there. Lucky me the driver came in early.

Panzer IV Side

Panzer IV

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 22, 2006
Posts: 4632
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Something old

The resemblance to this one taken at APG last year is striking. Better Bob not see this. Not that it's likely it would have remained at either place for much longer.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 28, 2006
Posts: 2024
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:06 pm
Post subject: Re: Something old

Yep,

Bob's been "Jacked" Laughing ,

This old Girl doesn't roll, Transmission is locked. They had to lift here up with an M88 and pull her with the 5 ton from what I was told, Wasn't there at the time, was getting my DD214 Smile .

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 3941
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:56 pm
Post subject: Re: Something old

Yeah... Sorry to see that one go... She was recovered from Tunisia... Thankfully I did manage to get a full walk-around a few years ago...

Good side

Bad%20side But%20at%20least%20\"we\"%20(Ordnance%20Museum)%20still%20have%20the%20hyrdro-static%20drive%20PzKpfw%20IV%20Ausf%20FG...%20Which%20is%20a%20little%20more%20interesting%20to%20me%20personally,%20wasnt%20cut%20open,%20has%20a%20turret%20shield,%20and%20in%20general%20in%20better%20condition%20IMO...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:06 am
Post subject: Re: Something old

I heard that 'she' will be exhibited beside the Tiger 2.
More info as I get it.

Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 3941
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:43 am
Post subject: Re: Something old

Makes sense. Do you think the staff will try to create a similar cutaway/interior display - or cover over the cutaways?

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:00 am
Post subject: Re: Something old

- Neil_Baumgardner
Makes sense. Do you think the staff will try to create a similar cutaway/interior display - or cover over the cutaways?

Neil


I hope it will remain open & viewable, but that in itself means 'she' will need more than just an exterior cosmetic resto.

Remember the Tiger 2 got a fairly extensive restoration, upon arrival here. Although the engine compartment remained untouched, the turret work is fairly detailed, having spent some time in the Tiger 2 interior.

A turret stand was fabricated for the Tiger 2, which still exists in Richardson MP.

I assume the Panzer IV's interior will need significant preservation work, to reverse the effects of Mother Nature.

Stay tuned....
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 3941
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 11:07 am
Post subject: Re: Something old

More on the "new acquisition."

www.armorfortheages.co...alpage.htm

BTW, not sure if its an F2 (as listed on armorfortheages) or not. FWIW, the Ordnance Museum said it was an Ausf G...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Garry_Redmon
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 397
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 6:51 pm
Post subject: Re: Something old

As you have learned, the Armor for the Ages site is back up with photos of the Panzer IV. I'm not sure at this time if the correct designation is F2 or G. Typically, a Panzer IV with the 75/L43 with globular muzzle brake has been designated an F2. The F1 version had the 75/L24. Otherwise they were the same. The one wrinkle is that early versions of the G also had the same muzzle brake. The G version had the side vision ports on the turret removed, as does this one. So, I guess it is a G.

The cutaway sides will be left open and fitted with plexiglass the same as the Tiger II. How extensive the cosmetic restoration will be is the curator's decision.

The curator requested the Pz IV and traded our Dodge maintenance truck for it.

_________________
armorfortheages.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 28, 2006
Posts: 2024
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Something old

Garry,

No, I didn't drive anything, though I'm sure "OB" would have let me If I had been able to stay longer.

I saw the maintenance truck, I think Knox got the better of the deal, although the truck did run and was in much better shape. Does that mean if I find an old Dodge WC I can trade it for an old tank at APG Wink ?

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Garry_Redmon
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 397
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:19 pm
Post subject: Re: Something old

Maybe. I'm not sure why they made the trade. Just conjecture on my part, but since the APG material will be transferred to Fort Lee which will be the center of the new Transportation, Quartermaster and Ordnance command, maybe they needed that type of vehicle for their new museum. So, if you find a vehicle they need, maybe they will trade you for it. Got room for an Elefant in your front yard? Smile

_________________
armorfortheages.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 3941
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Something old

Yeah, for better or worse... The Ordnance Museum needs softskin vehicles - having apparently given up most/all in the 1970s or so before Dr Atwater arrived... So its missing a good chunk of the Ordnance materiel story...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 22, 2006
Posts: 2516
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 5:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Something old

As I understand it although it is a 'trade' it was viewed as a chance to material that is appropriate for the mission of each museum in the collection into the museums collection. Ordnance is about support, not tanks as such. So getting maintenance vehicles is important.

At the same time the Museum understands that they need to group exhibits into priority groups and all will probably not be sent to Ft Lee due to space and budget constraints.

I think I mentioned a while back that the Czech S-35 is going back home to Europe ( I think Slovakia but it may be another part of the old Czechoslovakia) It may already be gone

And just to be clear all the above is my opinion and interpretation of conversations I have had with folks at Aberdeen. It has NO official standing at all.

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 3941
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 5:37 pm
Post subject: Re: Something old

My $0.02, thoughts, clarification, etc...

Ordnance is about Combat Services Support, yes... But in terms of equipment it is now a relatively minor "customer" or "user" of vehicles, whereas in the past (prior to the establishment of the Army Materiel Command in 1962) it was a major _buyer_ , as well as tester & evaluator, of equipment.

Almost all of the equipment in the museum dates from this period. Most of the US vehicles, firearms, etc date were first bought by & evaluated by the Ordnance board at APG. After 1962, AMC took on responsibility for buying vehicles & equipment, although vehicles continued to be tested at APG... As such many of those items continued to be passed on the Ordnance Museum...

Similarly, all of the foreign equipment in the Ordnance Museum was tested by Ordnance Technical Intelligence or later the foreign military intelligence outfits at APG...

However... Sometime in the 1970s most if not all softskins in the Museum's collection were let go for whatever reason - even though photo evidence shows there were once a considerable number of softskin vehicles in the museum's collection prior to the move to the current location (from another part of the post). I will freely admit & note that the Ordnance Museum became somewhat unbalanced at that point - not telling the whole story of what the Ordnance Corps bought, testes & used...

IMO, while I regret the loss of the PzKpfw IV, the acquistion of the Dodge truck probably helps to rebalance the museum's story (regardless of location)...

Now whether or not articles tested at APG - which are really part of the APG story, not really the Ordnance Corps story - should go to Fort Lee as well is a much more messy discussion that potentially leads to some messy outcomes I dont care to get into just yet...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
clausb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 146

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 11:46 pm
Post subject: Re: Something old

- Garry_Redmon
As you have learned, the Armor for the Ages site is back up with photos of the Panzer IV. I'm not sure at this time if the correct designation is F2 or G. Typically, a Panzer IV with the 75/L43 with globular muzzle brake has been designated an F2. The F1 version had the 75/L24. Otherwise they were the same. The one wrinkle is that early versions of the G also had the same muzzle brake. The G version had the side vision ports on the turret removed, as does this one. So, I guess it is a G.


It doesn't make much sense to try to distinguish between an F2 and a (early) G as they were for all intents and purposes the same vehicle. An Ausf. G is by definition an Ausf. F with a longer gun and the associated changes to ammo stoorage etc.

The F2 designation only came about because it was decided to start Ausf. G production before the Ausf. F production order had run its course. Hence, for a short period in 1942, the F2 designation was used to make apart the Ausf. F tanks with the short gun and (F1) and those with the long gun (F2). Once they started on the Ausf. G production order, the Ausf. F2 designation was dropped and all the vehicles with long guns produced on the Ausf. F production order was re-labelled Ausf. G.

So all Ausf. F2s are by definition Ausf. Gs Smile

cbo
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum