±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 511
Total: 511
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Home
03: Community Forums
04: Photo Gallery
05: Photo Gallery
06: Community Forums
07: Statistics
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: Community Forums
14: Downloads
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: Home
18: Home
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Photo Gallery
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Community Forums
25: Statistics
26: Home
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: Photo Gallery
30: Community Forums
31: Home
32: Community Forums
33: Photo Gallery
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Photo Gallery
39: Community Forums
40: Community Forums
41: Photo Gallery
42: Community Forums
43: Community Forums
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Downloads
54: Downloads
55: Community Forums
56: Your Account
57: Downloads
58: Community Forums
59: Photo Gallery
60: Photo Gallery
61: Photo Gallery
62: Community Forums
63: Photo Gallery
64: Community Forums
65: Photo Gallery
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: Community Forums
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Home
75: Community Forums
76: Downloads
77: Downloads
78: Community Forums
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Home
82: Community Forums
83: Community Forums
84: Community Forums
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: Photo Gallery
90: Photo Gallery
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Member Screenshots
94: Community Forums
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Downloads
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Photo Gallery
106: Community Forums
107: Home
108: Photo Gallery
109: Community Forums
110: Community Forums
111: Community Forums
112: Community Forums
113: Photo Gallery
114: Community Forums
115: Community Forums
116: Photo Gallery
117: Community Forums
118: Community Forums
119: Community Forums
120: Photo Gallery
121: Community Forums
122: Community Forums
123: Community Forums
124: Home
125: Community Forums
126: Home
127: Community Forums
128: Community Forums
129: Downloads
130: Downloads
131: Community Forums
132: Home
133: Community Forums
134: Photo Gallery
135: Community Forums
136: Community Forums
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Home
140: Photo Gallery
141: Photo Gallery
142: Community Forums
143: Home
144: Photo Gallery
145: Photo Gallery
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Home
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Downloads
153: Photo Gallery
154: Community Forums
155: Photo Gallery
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Downloads
160: Downloads
161: Photo Gallery
162: Photo Gallery
163: Photo Gallery
164: Photo Gallery
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: Community Forums
168: Community Forums
169: Statistics
170: Community Forums
171: Community Forums
172: Community Forums
173: Photo Gallery
174: Community Forums
175: Community Forums
176: Community Forums
177: Community Forums
178: Photo Gallery
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Photo Gallery
183: Member Screenshots
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: Community Forums
188: Home
189: Community Forums
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Community Forums
194: Community Forums
195: Community Forums
196: Photo Gallery
197: Community Forums
198: Home
199: Home
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: Community Forums
204: Community Forums
205: Downloads
206: Community Forums
207: Photo Gallery
208: Photo Gallery
209: Community Forums
210: Community Forums
211: Community Forums
212: Home
213: Community Forums
214: Community Forums
215: Community Forums
216: Community Forums
217: Statistics
218: Photo Gallery
219: Photo Gallery
220: Community Forums
221: CPGlang
222: Photo Gallery
223: Community Forums
224: Statistics
225: Photo Gallery
226: Photo Gallery
227: Photo Gallery
228: Home
229: Photo Gallery
230: Photo Gallery
231: Community Forums
232: Community Forums
233: Community Forums
234: Community Forums
235: Community Forums
236: Home
237: Downloads
238: Community Forums
239: Photo Gallery
240: Community Forums
241: Community Forums
242: Community Forums
243: Community Forums
244: Photo Gallery
245: Photo Gallery
246: Photo Gallery
247: Community Forums
248: Photo Gallery
249: Home
250: Photo Gallery
251: Community Forums
252: Community Forums
253: Home
254: Community Forums
255: Home
256: Community Forums
257: Photo Gallery
258: Photo Gallery
259: Downloads
260: Home
261: Community Forums
262: Community Forums
263: Home
264: Community Forums
265: Community Forums
266: Community Forums
267: Photo Gallery
268: Home
269: Community Forums
270: Downloads
271: Downloads
272: Community Forums
273: Community Forums
274: Member Screenshots
275: Community Forums
276: Community Forums
277: Photo Gallery
278: Member Screenshots
279: Community Forums
280: Community Forums
281: Community Forums
282: Community Forums
283: Community Forums
284: Downloads
285: Community Forums
286: Community Forums
287: Community Forums
288: Community Forums
289: Your Account
290: Community Forums
291: Community Forums
292: Community Forums
293: Community Forums
294: Community Forums
295: Community Forums
296: Community Forums
297: Community Forums
298: Community Forums
299: Photo Gallery
300: Downloads
301: Home
302: Community Forums
303: Home
304: Downloads
305: Photo Gallery
306: Community Forums
307: Community Forums
308: Community Forums
309: Community Forums
310: Downloads
311: Downloads
312: Downloads
313: Photo Gallery
314: Photo Gallery
315: Photo Gallery
316: Community Forums
317: Community Forums
318: Community Forums
319: Photo Gallery
320: CPGlang
321: Community Forums
322: Photo Gallery
323: Downloads
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: Community Forums
327: Community Forums
328: Community Forums
329: Community Forums
330: Community Forums
331: Community Forums
332: Community Forums
333: Photo Gallery
334: Community Forums
335: Community Forums
336: Home
337: Community Forums
338: News
339: Community Forums
340: Community Forums
341: Downloads
342: Community Forums
343: Community Forums
344: Photo Gallery
345: Community Forums
346: Home
347: Member Screenshots
348: Community Forums
349: Community Forums
350: Community Forums
351: Member Screenshots
352: Community Forums
353: Community Forums
354: Photo Gallery
355: Home
356: Community Forums
357: Community Forums
358: Community Forums
359: Community Forums
360: Community Forums
361: Community Forums
362: Community Forums
363: Community Forums
364: Community Forums
365: Community Forums
366: Community Forums
367: Photo Gallery
368: Community Forums
369: Downloads
370: Community Forums
371: Community Forums
372: Community Forums
373: Community Forums
374: Downloads
375: Community Forums
376: Community Forums
377: Community Forums
378: Home
379: Community Forums
380: Community Forums
381: Community Forums
382: Home
383: Community Forums
384: Community Forums
385: CPGlang
386: Home
387: Community Forums
388: Home
389: Home
390: Community Forums
391: Community Forums
392: Home
393: Community Forums
394: Home
395: Community Forums
396: Community Forums
397: Community Forums
398: Downloads
399: Community Forums
400: Your Account
401: Community Forums
402: Community Forums
403: Community Forums
404: Home
405: News
406: Community Forums
407: Community Forums
408: Community Forums
409: Community Forums
410: Statistics
411: Community Forums
412: Community Forums
413: Community Forums
414: Community Forums
415: Your Account
416: Your Account
417: Photo Gallery
418: Your Account
419: Community Forums
420: Community Forums
421: Photo Gallery
422: Photo Gallery
423: Community Forums
424: Community Forums
425: Community Forums
426: Downloads
427: Photo Gallery
428: Community Forums
429: Downloads
430: Community Forums
431: Downloads
432: Your Account
433: Photo Gallery
434: Home
435: Community Forums
436: Community Forums
437: Community Forums
438: Your Account
439: Home
440: Community Forums
441: Community Forums
442: Community Forums
443: Community Forums
444: Community Forums
445: Photo Gallery
446: Community Forums
447: Photo Gallery
448: Community Forums
449: Community Forums
450: Community Forums
451: Community Forums
452: Community Forums
453: Photo Gallery
454: Community Forums
455: Photo Gallery
456: Your Account
457: Photo Gallery
458: Member Screenshots
459: Downloads
460: Community Forums
461: Community Forums
462: Community Forums
463: Community Forums
464: Community Forums
465: Photo Gallery
466: Home
467: Photo Gallery
468: Photo Gallery
469: Community Forums
470: Community Forums
471: Community Forums
472: Home
473: Community Forums
474: Community Forums
475: Downloads
476: Community Forums
477: Community Forums
478: Home
479: Community Forums
480: Home
481: Community Forums
482: Member Screenshots
483: Community Forums
484: Community Forums
485: Community Forums
486: Home
487: Community Forums
488: Community Forums
489: Photo Gallery
490: Community Forums
491: Community Forums
492: Community Forums
493: Community Forums
494: Statistics
495: Community Forums
496: Your Account
497: Photo Gallery
498: Community Forums
499: Photo Gallery
500: Community Forums
501: Photo Gallery
502: Community Forums
503: Community Forums
504: Photo Gallery
505: Community Forums
506: Photo Gallery
507: Community Forums
508: Community Forums
509: Community Forums
510: Community Forums
511: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
OT, Airbus lost to Lockheed Martin
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 11:33 am
Post subject: OT, Airbus lost to Lockheed Martin

Hi Folks!

I know aircraft can be way off topic, but I think this one will be of interest to some of members of the CIA group. After all this is about aircraft that can airlift some AFVs.

The Canadian gov. is looking for some new cargo planes to replace their aging C-130H airlifters.

They looked at the A400M by Airbus (which I understand NO prototypes have been completed yet) and Lockheed's C-130J (which I understand is currently in service and flying with the U.S.A.F.).

A contact is being put together for 17 aircraft.

www.defense-update.com....htm#c130j

Now I wonder why someone would go out and buy a current airframe that is flying (which also means the bugs are being worked out of that new airframe) rather that something that is still just a scale model and a large pile of blue prints?

I have heard a number of times (over at the old web site) that the answer to the problem of limiting AFV weight, to that of a C-130, could be fixed if the US would only buy the A400M LIKE ALL the Europians are doing.

The U.S. Army is standing up it's seventh SBCT. The C-130 is currently flying. The A400M is still just a dream by a company that is losing possible customers with each passing week. If the management of Airbus doesn't get it's act together, it's just might be that the A400M will NEVER get built.

Spot report and some chewing on an old bone.
Sgt, Scouts out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Al_Bowie
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 9:23 pm
Post subject: Re: OT, Airbus lost to Lockheed Martin

Buying of the blueprint can be a dangerous proposition whether it is Aircraft or Armour. The Australian Government bought the F111 off the blueprint and had a ten year multi million dollar delay. Whilst it is true that we got one of the worlds best (still) attack aircraft the fact is we had a gap (temporarily filled by F4E) in our defence capability for over ten years.
The new Mega Airbus is another point in case with Qantas very warily revising its purchase after the trouble plagued aircraft actually flew. It seems the engines have a very short life (Not related to the engine design as they are highly successful on other airframes) span.
A proven design is the way to go particularly regarding the Herc.
Cheers
Al
Back to top
View user's profile
Maple_Leaf_Eh
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 517

PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 4:34 am
Post subject: Re: OT, Airbus lost to Lockheed Martin

The Canadian Herc fleet is downright ancient. These are the oldest flying Hercs on the planet. Flown long and hard, well maintainted, but not nimble and nubile anymore. (Remind anyone of themselves maybe?) It is a miracle none have fallen out of the sky from old age yet. I don't think they are all Hs; something tells me the fleet is four models including original 1960's buys, attrition replacements in the 70's and 80's, a couple of ex-civilian stretches, and a few relative youngster military patterns.

The Canadian strategic air fleet consists of four combi A310s that were foisted on the military when the number two national airline went broke. The air force wasn't too interested in them because they were pax only. After much politicking and contracting out, they all had side doors and reinforced floors installed. Same tail numbers, virtually new fuselages. The other airplane type are the Hercs. The airbridges to Bosnia and now to the sandbox are chewing up the airframe hours across the fleets. Hence the urgency to buy a small handful of C17s and a few dozen C130Js. With this government the planes will be delivered early or on time.

Airbus apparently made several invitations for the acquisition team to try their SIMULATOR, but there were already crews CROSS-TRAINING on flying Js. Simple logic when time is short.
Back to top
View user's profile
Hanno_Spoelstra
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jun 04, 2006
Posts: 185

PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 11:36 am
Post subject: Re: OT, Airbus lost to Lockheed Martin

- Roy_A_Lingle
Now I wonder why someone would go out and buy a current airframe that is flying (which also means the bugs are being worked out of that new airframe) rather that something that is still just a scale model and a large pile of blue prints?


It is quite simple - if you have a need for an aircraft NOW, go and buy one off the production line. If you are in need of an aircraft in the future, go and pay a company to design and build you one. You then have the possibility to influence the design to suit your future needs.

Since a very long time, no single aircraft has been designed & built without pre-orders from customers, be they civilian or military.
Back to top
View user's profile
tankmodeler
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 42
Location: Ontario
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 5:26 am
Post subject: Re: OT, Airbus lost to Lockheed Martin

- Maple_Leaf_Eh
Airbus apparently made several invitations for the acquisition team to try their SIMULATOR, but there were already crews CROSS-TRAINING on flying Js. Simple logic when time is short.

That must have been a real "Hail Mary" from Airbus to imagine thaht we'd buy A400s. Not that they don't offer a lot of what we would really like in a medium sized airlifter, but we are on short rats for money, have a desperate need for airframes now and have a 40+ year familiarisation on the Herc. Anyting else just isn't in the cards.

I'm sure the blue suits also knew that if they even sniffed the hydraulics of an A400 sim, then the Canadian press would be all over it and muddy the waters at a point when replacements are needed real-soon-now.

Notice that we're also buying more Chinooks 10 years after we got rid of our last batch due to the previous government's inability to understand the military.

Paul Roberts
President
AMPS

_________________
Paul Roberts
President
Armor Modeling and Preservation Society
Back to top
View user's profile
Al_Bowie
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 8:56 pm
Post subject: Re: OT, Airbus lost to Lockheed Martin

We have similar histories. We mothballed all our A model Chooks then traded them (plus a small fortune) for a half dozen D models. We also traded our E model Hercs for J model Hercs and bought a small number of C17's (4?). They are deciding what to do about the H Model Hercs as I type (then again they have been deciding what to do about the Caribou replacement for 15 years past its retirement date - still flying) . It's a pity that you didn't go the same way on Heavy Armour.
Cheers
Al
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum