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Ssssh! its about the CIA.
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Doug_Kibbey
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Posts: 4632
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 5:20 am
Post subject: Re: Ssssh! its about the CIA.

- Jens_O_Mehner
I know nuthink... Cool

You know, this whole thing got me thinking (always dangerous, ask any number of my various contemporaries at any given moment in time)- we need a badge!

I already have an idea, but I suck at the realisation- here's my concept, first have a look at the original:

I%20thought%20we'll%20have%20an%20OD%20background,%20\"Curmudgeons%20in%20Armor\"%20instead%20of%20\"Central%20Intelligence%20Agency\"%20(oxymoron%20city)%20the%20eagle%20gets%20replaced%20by%20a%20profile%20view%20of%20a%20silver/grey%20Mk%20I%20rhomboid%20tank%20facing%20left%20(sorta%20like%20the%20old%20collar%20badge),%20a%20head-on%20view%20of%20a%20T-55,%20and%20a%20profile%20view%20of%20a%20Leopard%201%20or%202%20facing%20right,%20on%20the%20white%20shield%20we%20replace%20the%20star%20with%20the%20armor%20triangle. On%20the%20bottom%20scroll,%20I'd%20put%20a%20white%20star%20for%20the%20US,%20either%20a%20red%20star%20or%20the%20tricolor%20for%20the%20Rodina,%20an%20iron%20cross%20for%20Germany,%20the%20respective%20roundels%20for%20the%20UK,%20France%20and%20Finland,%20the%20Star%20of%20David%20for%20Israel-%20you%20get%20the%20idea,%20we'll%20have%20to%20use%20a%20lot%20of%20wingy%20thingy%20stuff,%20but%20many%20of%20these%20have%20been%20used%20for%20aerial%20recognition%20on%20armored%20vehicles.%20Lest%20we%20run%20out%20of%20space,%20I'd%20say%20we%20shoot%20for%20nations%20with%20an%20armor%20tradition%20and/or%20a%20major%20impact%20on%20armor%20design. Whaddaya%20think?%20We%20could%20but%20it%20on%20name%20badges,%20patches,%20decals,%20T-shirts,%20hats...%20The%20list%20is%20endless.%20Instant%20recognition,%20fame,%20fortune,%20world%20domination,%20all%20ours%20if%20someone%20could%20put%20it%20into%20a%20graphic%20form.%20%20:lol:%20 Jens%20O.
Jens, I'd%20be%20careful%20of%20running%20afoul%20of%20any%20copyrighted%20or%20trademarked%20logos,%20even%20in%20jest,%20since%20I've%20known%20it%20to%20come%20up%20with%20regard%20to%20some%20military%20units. However,%20I%20had%20gotten%20this%20far%20with%20some%20T-Shirt%20ideas%20for%20CafePress,%20with%20George's%20blessing,%20before%20I%20got%20into%20a%20travel%20cycle%20and%20forgot%20all%20about%20it... I%20have%20a%20version%20with%20AFV%20News%20in%20there%20somewhere,%20too. Whadday'a%20think?
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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 5:25 am
Post subject: Re: Ssssh! its about the CIA.

- JimWeb


.. now all I need is an image of a grumpy old fart on top of something armoured.. Roy? Laughing

Cool


Sorry, I became a "grumpy old fart" long after the last time I was up on top of an AFV so I don't have any photos. Now if you can provide me with an AFV to climb up onto, I will glady pose for you. Razz
Sgt, Scouts Out!

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bsmart
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 5:31 am
Post subject: Re: Ssssh! its about the CIA.

Get out here to Aberdeen and we can make it happen!

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Jens_O_Mehner
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 5:45 am
Post subject: Re: Ssssh! its about the CIA.

Well,

I see where you're coming from, but to the best of my knowledge none of the US governmental logos have been trademarked or copyrighted- anyways, if we drop the shield and just use the armor triangle instead (which is in the public domain), we use a traditional heraldic design- we can even drop the scroll background and just use the national recognition marks.

I like your T-shirt designs, but I was aiming at a more internationally oriented logo, and not everybody used Shermans. Wink
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 5:57 am
Post subject: Re: Ssssh! its about the CIA.

- Jens_O_Mehner
Well,

I see where you're coming from, but to the best of my knowledge none of the US governmental logos have been trademarked or copyrighted- anyways, if we drop the shield and just use the armor triangle instead (which is in the public domain), we use a traditional heraldic design- we can even drop the scroll background and just use the national recognition marks.

I like your T-shirt designs, but I was aiming at a more internationally oriented logo, and not everybody used Shermans. Wink


Jens.
Well, I hastened to get a tank in there because there was some risk associated with travelers with the "CIA" thing in there and no instant CLARIFICATION about what it was about. Actually, the Sherman was not my first choice, a WWI Mark IV was, but George pointed out that this was in use by another group that he wanted not to impinge upon, so I went with the next most generic and widely recognized symbol....nationalism had nothing to do with the choice, I promise.
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Jens_O_Mehner
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 6:12 am
Post subject: Re: Ssssh! its about the CIA.

- Doug_Kibbey
Jens.
Well, I hastened to get a tank in there because there was some risk associated with travelers with the "CIA" thing in there and no instant CLARIFICATION about what it was about. Actually, the Sherman was not my first choice, a WWI Mark IV was, but George pointed out that this was in use by another group that he wanted not to impinge upon, so I went with the next most generic and widely recognized symbol....nationalism had nothing to do with the choice, I promise.


Ahh, not to worry,

I didn't imply any nationalism, I can see where the M4 comes in, but I feel it's a bit overused these days and I was aiming at a instantly recognizable, quasimodern yet traditional and self-explanatory look, that's why my design also spells CIA out and uses well-known tanks with an international flavour.

We'd have to rethink the Star of David if there any among us that plan to travel to Arabian countries...

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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 6:23 am
Post subject: Re: Ssssh! its about the CIA.

I can also cobble up a "mythical" tank silhouette...totally generic. Should also be "old" and not modern-looking. I wanted something that we could feel comfortable in while mingling with the public on planes, buses, in crowds, etc. in various parts of the world without "political" entanglements. If you start putting national symbols of any sort on there, this could get to be a problem, depending on who, and where, you are.
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JimWeb
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 6:55 am
Post subject: Re: Ssssh! its about the CIA.

- Dontos
How about a Tanker who is 'ordered' to apply face paint since the Infantry Bn had all their guys in paint.


When I was posted to Bovington - the regiment that was already there (QDG IIRC) was having a parade and I was drafted in (to fill holes in the ranks I suspect) anyway at the dress rehearsal this very young 2lt in charge of our particular column came up to me and.. anyway it went like this

2lt: I say could you wear one of our cap badges for the parade rather than your lancer one?

me <long cold stare straight into his eyes>

2lt <starting to look uncomfortable and probably wondering which was the best line of retreat>

me: no -go away!

Curiously enough they didn't need me for the real parade...

Cool

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bsmart
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 6:55 am
Post subject: Re: Ssssh! its about the CIA.

What about an FT-17 silouette as the basis. It's old, they were used everywhere, The tracks and turret stand out

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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 6:56 am
Post subject: Re: Ssssh! its about the CIA.

The Not-A-Sherman, Mark XII, Panzerkampfwagen VIII, KV-IV, A7-4A!

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JimWeb
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 7:04 am
Post subject: Re: Ssssh! its about the CIA.

- Doug_Kibbey
I can also cobble up a "mythical" tank silhouette...totally generic. Should also be "old" and not modern-looking. I wanted something that we could feel comfortable in while mingling with the public on planes, buses, in crowds, etc. in various parts of the world without "political" entanglements. If you start putting national symbols of any sort on there, this could get to be a problem, depending on who, and where, you are.


Why not use the tank off the russian tankers badge - thats quite generic and would look good?



Cool

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Jim

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not serious about anything military..

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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 7:36 am
Post subject: Re: Ssssh! its about the CIA.

- JimWeb
- Doug_Kibbey
I can also cobble up a "mythical" tank silhouette...totally generic. Should also be "old" and not modern-looking. I wanted something that we could feel comfortable in while mingling with the public on planes, buses, in crowds, etc. in various parts of the world without "political" entanglements. If you start putting national symbols of any sort on there, this could get to be a problem, depending on who, and where, you are.


Why not use the tank off the russian tankers badge - thats quite generic and would look good?



Cool


I'll let you submit that one to Cafepress, I don't care for any surprize-laced caipirinhas, thanks very much! Wink
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Jens_O_Mehner
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:16 am
Post subject: Re: Ssssh! its about the CIA.

Hmmm,

I dunno, that CIA on the T-Shirt design certainly draws attention to the wearer, since the explanatory part is rather small- I'd still rather go for a crest/badge-type of design and instead of the individual nations, we could use the UN flag? These designs usually draw less attention as well, since most people assume it's another university or something, plus most people won't make the connection from "Curmudgeons in Armor" to CIA anyways.

I also feel so limited using just one tank design, it kind of gives the false impression we are only interested in one era...

I'll kick it around some more, maybe I can even visualize something- I'll do it the old way and doodle it on paper, followed by scanning it in... Yeah, 21st century technology has a firm grip on me. Laughing

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Jens_O_Mehner
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 10:30 am
Post subject: Re: Ssssh! its about the CIA.

This is about what I had in mind:



Alternatively, instead of using tanks, we could show crossed sabers, crossed rifles and a classic spokewheeled gun in recognition of the roots.

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bsmart
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 10:37 am
Post subject: Re: Ssssh! its about the CIA.

Make the Triangle larger, Ditch the Flag

What about the Words "Obstinate" "Argumentative" (Something meaning detail oriented) along each side of the Triangle (Maybe even put them in Latin or another Language)

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