±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 531
Total: 531
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Home
03: Community Forums
04: Photo Gallery
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: Community Forums
14: Community Forums
15: Downloads
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: CPGlang
19: Home
20: Community Forums
21: Photo Gallery
22: Community Forums
23: Member Screenshots
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: Downloads
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: Community Forums
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Downloads
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Member Screenshots
40: Photo Gallery
41: Community Forums
42: Photo Gallery
43: Community Forums
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Your Account
56: Downloads
57: Community Forums
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Community Forums
62: Community Forums
63: Community Forums
64: Photo Gallery
65: Community Forums
66: Home
67: Photo Gallery
68: Community Forums
69: Photo Gallery
70: Photo Gallery
71: Community Forums
72: Home
73: Member Screenshots
74: Community Forums
75: Photo Gallery
76: Photo Gallery
77: Photo Gallery
78: Community Forums
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Downloads
84: News
85: Community Forums
86: Photo Gallery
87: Community Forums
88: Member Screenshots
89: Photo Gallery
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Your Account
94: Community Forums
95: Home
96: Home
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: Photo Gallery
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: Home
107: Home
108: Community Forums
109: Photo Gallery
110: Community Forums
111: Community Forums
112: Home
113: Downloads
114: Community Forums
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Your Account
118: Home
119: Photo Gallery
120: Home
121: Community Forums
122: Community Forums
123: Community Forums
124: Home
125: Photo Gallery
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Photo Gallery
129: Community Forums
130: Home
131: Community Forums
132: Community Forums
133: Home
134: Community Forums
135: Community Forums
136: Community Forums
137: Community Forums
138: Photo Gallery
139: Community Forums
140: Community Forums
141: Home
142: Community Forums
143: Community Forums
144: Community Forums
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Photo Gallery
149: Home
150: Community Forums
151: Photo Gallery
152: Community Forums
153: Community Forums
154: Your Account
155: Community Forums
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Home
159: Photo Gallery
160: Photo Gallery
161: Photo Gallery
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: Photo Gallery
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: Community Forums
168: Community Forums
169: Photo Gallery
170: Community Forums
171: Community Forums
172: Home
173: Community Forums
174: Community Forums
175: Community Forums
176: Home
177: Community Forums
178: Community Forums
179: Community Forums
180: Home
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: CPGlang
184: Photo Gallery
185: Community Forums
186: Home
187: Community Forums
188: Community Forums
189: Community Forums
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Photo Gallery
193: Photo Gallery
194: Community Forums
195: Community Forums
196: Community Forums
197: Your Account
198: Community Forums
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: Photo Gallery
204: CPGlang
205: Community Forums
206: Home
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Community Forums
210: Community Forums
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Photo Gallery
214: Community Forums
215: Community Forums
216: CPGlang
217: Photo Gallery
218: Home
219: Community Forums
220: Member Screenshots
221: Community Forums
222: Community Forums
223: Community Forums
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Community Forums
227: Community Forums
228: Member Screenshots
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: Downloads
232: Community Forums
233: Community Forums
234: Your Account
235: Photo Gallery
236: Community Forums
237: Community Forums
238: Photo Gallery
239: Photo Gallery
240: Home
241: Community Forums
242: Community Forums
243: Downloads
244: Community Forums
245: Your Account
246: Community Forums
247: Home
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: Community Forums
251: Community Forums
252: Community Forums
253: CPGlang
254: Community Forums
255: Community Forums
256: Photo Gallery
257: Photo Gallery
258: Community Forums
259: Home
260: Community Forums
261: Community Forums
262: Community Forums
263: Community Forums
264: Community Forums
265: Community Forums
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: Community Forums
269: Community Forums
270: Community Forums
271: Community Forums
272: Community Forums
273: Community Forums
274: Statistics
275: Community Forums
276: Community Forums
277: Photo Gallery
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: Community Forums
281: Home
282: Community Forums
283: Community Forums
284: Community Forums
285: Community Forums
286: Home
287: Community Forums
288: Community Forums
289: Community Forums
290: Community Forums
291: Community Forums
292: Community Forums
293: Community Forums
294: Home
295: Community Forums
296: Community Forums
297: Community Forums
298: Photo Gallery
299: Community Forums
300: Community Forums
301: Your Account
302: Community Forums
303: Photo Gallery
304: Community Forums
305: Community Forums
306: Community Forums
307: Community Forums
308: Statistics
309: Photo Gallery
310: Photo Gallery
311: Community Forums
312: Community Forums
313: Community Forums
314: Community Forums
315: Photo Gallery
316: Community Forums
317: Community Forums
318: Community Forums
319: Member Screenshots
320: Photo Gallery
321: Community Forums
322: Your Account
323: Community Forums
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: Downloads
327: Community Forums
328: Community Forums
329: News Archive
330: Photo Gallery
331: Community Forums
332: Community Forums
333: Community Forums
334: Community Forums
335: Photo Gallery
336: Community Forums
337: Home
338: Community Forums
339: Community Forums
340: Community Forums
341: CPGlang
342: Community Forums
343: Photo Gallery
344: Community Forums
345: Your Account
346: Community Forums
347: Community Forums
348: Community Forums
349: Community Forums
350: Community Forums
351: Photo Gallery
352: Community Forums
353: Community Forums
354: Community Forums
355: Community Forums
356: Community Forums
357: Community Forums
358: Community Forums
359: Community Forums
360: Community Forums
361: Photo Gallery
362: Community Forums
363: Your Account
364: Community Forums
365: Community Forums
366: Community Forums
367: Home
368: Community Forums
369: Community Forums
370: Community Forums
371: Downloads
372: Community Forums
373: Community Forums
374: Photo Gallery
375: Downloads
376: Photo Gallery
377: Home
378: Community Forums
379: Community Forums
380: Community Forums
381: Photo Gallery
382: Community Forums
383: Community Forums
384: Home
385: Photo Gallery
386: Photo Gallery
387: CPGlang
388: Community Forums
389: Community Forums
390: Community Forums
391: Community Forums
392: Community Forums
393: Photo Gallery
394: Community Forums
395: Community Forums
396: Community Forums
397: Community Forums
398: Community Forums
399: Community Forums
400: Community Forums
401: Community Forums
402: Photo Gallery
403: Photo Gallery
404: Community Forums
405: Photo Gallery
406: Your Account
407: Member Screenshots
408: Community Forums
409: Community Forums
410: Community Forums
411: Community Forums
412: Photo Gallery
413: Community Forums
414: Community Forums
415: Home
416: Your Account
417: Community Forums
418: Community Forums
419: Community Forums
420: Community Forums
421: Photo Gallery
422: News
423: Community Forums
424: Community Forums
425: Home
426: Community Forums
427: Community Forums
428: Photo Gallery
429: Community Forums
430: Community Forums
431: Home
432: Home
433: Community Forums
434: Community Forums
435: Photo Gallery
436: Community Forums
437: Community Forums
438: Community Forums
439: Community Forums
440: Home
441: Community Forums
442: Community Forums
443: Community Forums
444: Community Forums
445: Home
446: Community Forums
447: Community Forums
448: Community Forums
449: Community Forums
450: News
451: Community Forums
452: Community Forums
453: Community Forums
454: Community Forums
455: Photo Gallery
456: Community Forums
457: Community Forums
458: Community Forums
459: Community Forums
460: Photo Gallery
461: Community Forums
462: Statistics
463: Community Forums
464: Community Forums
465: Community Forums
466: Community Forums
467: Community Forums
468: Community Forums
469: Home
470: Photo Gallery
471: Community Forums
472: Downloads
473: Downloads
474: Community Forums
475: Community Forums
476: Community Forums
477: CPGlang
478: Photo Gallery
479: Community Forums
480: Home
481: Community Forums
482: Photo Gallery
483: Photo Gallery
484: Home
485: News
486: Community Forums
487: Community Forums
488: Community Forums
489: Community Forums
490: Home
491: Community Forums
492: Community Forums
493: Community Forums
494: Community Forums
495: Photo Gallery
496: Community Forums
497: Community Forums
498: Community Forums
499: Downloads
500: Community Forums
501: CPGlang
502: Community Forums
503: Community Forums
504: Community Forums
505: Community Forums
506: Community Forums
507: Community Forums
508: Community Forums
509: Community Forums
510: Community Forums
511: Photo Gallery
512: Community Forums
513: Member Screenshots
514: Community Forums
515: Community Forums
516: Community Forums
517: Community Forums
518: Community Forums
519: Downloads
520: Statistics
521: Downloads
522: Photo Gallery
523: Community Forums
524: Community Forums
525: Community Forums
526: Community Forums
527: Community Forums
528: Community Forums
529: Community Forums
530: Community Forums
531: Photo Gallery

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Recoilless Rifles & Avalanche Control
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 12:03 am
Post subject: Recoilless Rifles & Avalanche Control

Just found this surfin' around...

Thought about Thread with discussed this, awhile ago....

A 105 mm. recoilless rifle fired for avalanche control. This fixed installation is at Alta, Utah.





Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
JG300-Ascout
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 05, 2005
Posts: 6257
Location: Cyberspace
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 12:10 am
Post subject: Re: Recoilless Rifles & Avalanche Control

The Ascout, it is said, is VERY familiar with Alta and these installations. Mostly they use propane and other explosive methods now, for lack of ammo, but he recalls when they did use the 106 a lot, since he's been skiing there for, oh, about 25 years:

www.com-central.net/in...pic&t=6183


_________________
"All facts go to clearly prove that Shades is a thrice-cursed traitor & mentally deranged person steeped in inveterate enmity toward mankind"


Last edited by JG300-Ascout on Sun Mar 18, 2007 1:01 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 12:25 am
Post subject: Re: Recoilless Rifles & Avalanche Control

Not about Avalanche...

But does the track on this Taiwanese M733 Look familiar???

(...hint: Lingle Track?...)



Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
JG300-Ascout
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 05, 2005
Posts: 6257
Location: Cyberspace
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 12:53 am
Post subject: Re: Recoilless Rifles & Avalanche Control

www.alaskarails.org/sn...JC-gun.jpg

"An avalanche on January 31, 1998 took out 200 feet of track, over turned three coal cars and closed the route for several days. To help manage the heavy snow accumulation from the hills and mountains above, the Alaska Railroad uses a 105mm recoilless rifle. Before the snow accumulates into an unmanageable menace, workers fire a round at an overhang or drift and knock it down.

From Frank Dewey, Alaska Railroad locomotive engineer (12/22/99): "In 1998 the (2) ARRC 106mm recoilless rifles were retired and replaced with an ex-US Army 105mm howitzer with Hy-rail gear mounted on the original gun carriage. The reason was that the "Korean War" vintage weapon had run out of ammunition. Supplied to many third world nations the 106mm stockpiles were used up by Viet Nam and numerous other wars. In 1990 the ARRC paid for the last 3000 rounds to be refurbished for avalanche control.

"The howitzer and ammunition is kept at Tunnel Section House at MP51, between Slide Zone 49 and Slide Zone 53. It is safe there as the only way to get there is by rail or helicopter. Tests were conducted by the ARRC and the US Army/National Guard with a 105mm howitzer mounted on a 50 ft. flatcar, caboose and with a military gun crew to operate it. Now you know that there is a prototype for those HO Scale ROCO guns!

"Originally, the gun was a home made "thing" that used either propane or acetylene gas for propellant. You might say "the mother of all potato guns" to lob an explosive package into the slide chute. Not exactly long range or accurate. It was replaced with a 75mm recoilless, but ammo stocks were already low and the more powerful 106 was soon available.

"Sometimes the ARR will use helicopters to bomb the slide areas."

www.alaskarails.org/AR...hting.html


And avalanche history at ALTA with lots of pics of guns....how about Recoiless Rifles on PICKUP TRUCKS?! Mr. Green

And a French 75mm howitzer!!!!!!

...and a 4.2 inch mortar (Where is Jeff Button?!)

www.avalanche.org/~moo...20Alta.htm


_________________
"All facts go to clearly prove that Shades is a thrice-cursed traitor & mentally deranged person steeped in inveterate enmity toward mankind"
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
JG300-Ascout
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 05, 2005
Posts: 6257
Location: Cyberspace
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 1:47 am
Post subject: Re: Recoilless Rifles & Avalanche Control

Even MORE wonderful 75mm howitzer and RR shots from ALTA with some history:

www.avalanche.org/~moo...tories.htm


This is an "avalauncher", which is what has basically replaced the RR's and conventional guns, when hand thrown bombs won't do. Propane-powered, this one is at Snowbird, which is just next door to and ajoins Alta up Little Cottonwood Canyon:

www.dpowder.com/dpowdr...cherSB.gif

BTW, Don, the link in the previous post on the Alta history features several pics with E.R. LaChapelle in them, the author of the study where you likely found the pic you posted of the 105RR (as is the first link in this post). A legendary figure around Alta.

www.avalanche.org/~moo...asting.htm

Alta was originally a mining camp and is one of the oldest ski areas in the U.S. Still on U.S. Forest Service land, it's not "privately owned" and is rigorously controlled and in a very avalanche prone area...even getting there...as my wife can now attest...we had to take the bypass last month even to get there...the pass was closed for a stretch for two days.

_________________
"All facts go to clearly prove that Shades is a thrice-cursed traitor & mentally deranged person steeped in inveterate enmity toward mankind"
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
JG300-Ascout
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 05, 2005
Posts: 6257
Location: Cyberspace
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:17 am
Post subject: Re: Recoilless Rifles & Avalanche Control

Atigun Pass, Alaska, northernmost highway pass in the state.
105mm


_________________
"All facts go to clearly prove that Shades is a thrice-cursed traitor & mentally deranged person steeped in inveterate enmity toward mankind"
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 1:50 pm
Post subject: Re: Recoilless Rifles & Avalanche Control

"And avalanche history at ALTA with lots of pics of guns....how about Recliless Rifles on PICKUP TRUCKS?!

And a French 75mm howitzer!!!!!!

...and a 4.2 inch mortar (Where is Jeff Button?!)"

Here is Jeff Button!
I do suppose a mortar could be used, the bigger the better due to range requirements and size of the explosion. Here's how the following mortars would size up for this job range wise;

60mm M224 3500meters
81mm M29A1 4790meters
81mm M252 5600meters
107mm M30 6840meters
120mm M120 7200meters

That would be a cool (in more ways than one)way to make a living after retirement and still get to use your favorite weapon system.

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
JG300-Ascout
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 05, 2005
Posts: 6257
Location: Cyberspace
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 2:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Recoilless Rifles & Avalanche Control

Hi Jeff!

Usually, the range involved is not great, seldom more than a few hundred meters, maybe as much as a thousand in the case of a ski resort....mainly further than the ski patrol can throw or safely carry the two pound plastic bombs that are typically used to precipitate an avalanche. Accuracy is not at a premium either, it's more about concussion effect. I'd guess that keeping duds at a minimum and unsuitable warheads had more to do with the choice of systems in the end, plus a lack of ammo for the recoiless systems, which were low maintenence and you didn't have to worry about what charge to use and all them little baggies as with mortars. (Not to mention how much easier "direct fire" is to master for mere mortals).

The "avalaunchers" don't have that problem...just dial up some propane, stick in the bomb, and say "boom". It's basically like the ceremonial retreat gun that used to be over the cannon on the Sherman at Ft. Knox or like a big spud gun...it just launches the plastic bomb off into the snow further than the ski patrol can throw...simpler and safer, but not as cool to us. Sad

_________________
"All facts go to clearly prove that Shades is a thrice-cursed traitor & mentally deranged person steeped in inveterate enmity toward mankind"
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Maple_Leaf_Eh
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 517

PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 8:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Recoilless Rifles & Avalanche Control

There is a standing artillery task at Roger's Pass in the Canadian Rockies. The gunners fire 105mm howitzers, not RCLs, at snowbanks high up on the mountains to start preemptive avalanches. Better to have a little snowslide than a really big one.

(Language question - Would a prepreemptive action therefore be an emptive action or is that one after the fact?)
Back to top
View user's profile
MarkHolloway
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2006
Posts: 2054
Location: Beatty, Nevada
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:40 am
Post subject: Re: Recoilless Rifles & Avalanche Control

Dontos, Looks like M114 track to me.

_________________
"TUMBLEWEED"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum