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Last four shots fired by the Dutch heavy cav
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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L.Delsing
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 3:32 am
Post subject: Last four shots fired by the Dutch heavy cav

On May the 18th the last 4 shots with a Dutch Leopard 2 were fired marking the end of 400 years heavy cavalry in the NLD.

The first two shots were fired (almost Wink ) simultaneously by the regimental commanders of van Sytzama and Prince of Orange followed by a shot by the commander of the cavalryschool and at last the GenMaj of the cavalry bd Jhr. J.H. de Jonge.

Regimental%20commander%20of%20van%20Sytzama%20mounting%20the%20tank%20for%20the%20last%20shot%20of%20the%20regiment. On%20the%20left%20Prince%20of%20Orange%20en%20on%20the%20right%20van%20Sytzama.%20The%20tanks%20were%20from%20the%20Cavalryschool. Commander%20of%20the%20cavalryschool%20firing%20(right)
And the last shot fired from the commandersplace by the genmaj de Jonge




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L.Delsing
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 3:37 am
Post subject: Re: Last four shots fired by the Dutch heavy cav

Both%20regiments%20at%20range%206%20for%20the%20ceremony

The standards of both regiments arriving at range 6
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Pzkpfw-e
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 3:38 am
Post subject: Re: Last four shots fired by the Dutch heavy cav

Did they hit?
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L.Delsing
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 3:41 am
Post subject: Re: Last four shots fired by the Dutch heavy cav

Targets were between the 1200 - 1800 meters (target nr 59) and were all hits. Some commanders let the gunner fire. The general fired in the modus ''Kommandant fuhrt hauptwaffe''/KH-HZF. And yes, it were four real hits.
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Kurt_Laughlin
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 8:03 am
Post subject: Re: Last four shots fired by the Dutch heavy cav

I take it the Dutch are not abandoning armored forces but putting them under a different organizational title?

KL
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 8:27 am
Post subject: Re: Last four shots fired by the Dutch heavy cav

No Kurt, the Netherlands is getting out of the tank business:
www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/...z1Mzsm9QGa

Neil
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JimWeb
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 11:24 am
Post subject: Re: Last four shots fired by the Dutch heavy cav

Remarkably short-sighted I think.

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Maple_Leaf_Eh
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 12:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Last four shots fired by the Dutch heavy cav

Please respect FT.com, use this link - www.ft.com/cms/s/0/43f...z1N0y3vOR3


Dutch tank crews take aim at cutbacks
By Matt Steinglass in Oirschot

Published: April 29 2011 01:56

Hundreds of soldiers in a mechanised brigade protested at military spending cuts that will leave the Netherlands with no main battle tanks for the first time since the second world war and could restrict the country’s role in future international military interventions.

The protest on Thursday, part of a wave of opposition among the Dutch military, was aimed at cutbacks announced this month that will reduce defence spending from €8.5bn ($12.6bn) this year to €7.5bn in 2015, eliminating 12,000 of the armed forces’ 59,000 personnel. The air force will lose 19 of its 87 F-16 fighter jets and the navy four of its 10 minesweepers.

It is like a death in the family,” said an officer, who asked to remain anonymous. “We are still in mourning.”

Like defence cuts elsewhere in Europe, the Dutch move comes as the Libyan conflict is calling into question the European Union’s ability to fulfil its military ambitions.

Other western powers consider the Dutch military small but highly effective. The Dutch Air Force has six F-16s enforcing the no-fly zone over Libya, while Dutch naval frigates conduct anti-piracy patrols off of Somalia.

The Netherlands has taken part in interventions in Afghanistan, Iraq, Kosovo and Bosnia.

Mark Rutte, prime minister, said the Dutch would continue to play a role in international missions, but the cuts would limit participation to shorter time periods.

The Dutch military was the quickest in Europe to transform itself into a leaner force after the end of the cold war – 45 per cent of the armed forces consists of combat units, compared with only 18 per cent in the German and Belgian militaries. As a result, Dutch defence cuts will have a greater affect on operational abilities than those in Germany and Belgium, says Kees Homan of the Netherlands Institute of International Relations Clingendael.

At the tank crews’ protest in Oirschot, near Eindhoven, many soldiers echoed that analysis. The base is home to one of the Netherlands’ two tank battalions, both of which are to be scrapped and their 60 Leopard 2 tanks sold.

“The government wants a ‘multiply deployable’ armed forces,” said Colonel Burg Valk, referring to a government strategy document calling for a flexible military suited to various kinds of conflicts. “For that kind of military, tanks are still essential.”

In an early draft of a letter about the cuts, Hans Hillen, defence minister, initially admitted that “the Netherlands’ security threatens to become underinsured”. It was revealed that Mr Hillen later edited out the line.

However, the greatest barriers to Dutch participation in missions may be political, not military.

The previous coalition government fell in 2010 when the Labour party refused to support the occupation of Afghanistan. Mr Rutte’s government needed co-operation from the opposition GreenLeft party to win approval for a small mission to train policemen in Afghanistan.

But concern over capabilities comes partly because the Dutch military has radically downsized.

Defence outlays have shrunk from 2.7 per cent of gross domestic product in 1990 to 1.4 per cent in 2010.

Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2011. You may share using our article tools. Please don't cut articles from FT.com and redistribute by email or post to the web.
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 1:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Last four shots fired by the Dutch heavy cav

- Maple_Leaf_Eh
Please respect FT.com, use this link - www.ft.com/cms/s/0/43f...z1N0y3vOR3


Dutch tank crews take aim at cutbacks
By Matt Steinglass in Oirschot

Published: April 29 2011 01:56

Hundreds of soldiers in a mechanised brigade protested at military spending cuts that will leave the Netherlands with no main battle tanks for the first time since the second world war and could restrict the country’s role in future international military interventions.


Cause or effect?....you be the judge.
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JWB2
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 1:01 am
Post subject: Re: Last four shots fired by the Dutch heavy cav

The link www.ft.com/cms/s/0/43f...z1N0y3vOR3 kept diverting me to things that don't matter so I will only ask (plead) why not keep just one of battalions?
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L.Delsing
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 10:20 am
Post subject: Re: Last four shots fired by the Dutch heavy cav

There is no military reason behind it, just money. The government wants to cut back the defense budget with a billion euro's and shutting down a complete weapon system was one way to get quick money.

Personally I would cut in the navy (submarines) and air force (patriot and not buying JSFs) and cutting on development aid and development assistance. After 30 years of throwing money to poor countries they are still poor and the leadership rich..

I'am afraid NLD tankers will go the way of the dinosaurs... Over 10 years soldiers will say ''look he was already in the army when they still had tanks. The other will say, whats a tank.....
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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 11:23 am
Post subject: Re: Last four shots fired by the Dutch heavy cav

Lesley:
Over 10 years soldiers will say ''look he was already in the army when they still had tanks. The other will say, whats a tank.....


I was at Fort Riley Kansas a little while ago visiting a very good friend before he shipped off (A-Stan this time). Spent some time in their Motor Pool during tank turn in since they are going without them (His 3rd deployment, none with tanks). He and another Platoon Sergeant both talked about how little they actually use their tanks in training once back from deployment. They had M1A1SA's and after 3 years from receiving them they still looked brand new. They both talked about the days of when they actually tanked. I kinda laughed and said "Remember, I complained then". That was compared to the "Cold War" days.

At least they still have their tanks, even if they don't use them much. Sorry for the loss Lesley, I can't imagine what I'd do if the US Army had eliminated tanks while I was still serving on them. Be almost like a death in the family. The worst part is once you eliminate a requirement (Expensive one at that), it is very hard to convince the powers that be to bring it back, even it it is needed. The loss of institutional knowledge gets greater too with each passing year. They really need to consider keeping some "Core" or "Cadre" to maintain that, even if it's just a Company sized element.

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L.Delsing
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 3:28 pm
Post subject: Re: Last four shots fired by the Dutch heavy cav

Hello Joe,
Thanks!
That was the feeling there, being at a funeral. A lot of people had tears in their eyes, including myself.

Tanked for 15 years, 10 years in the same coy, 2 years at the cav school and 3 years in the battalion staff, all in the same battalion. Spending a equally time in the field and at home with the wife. So the unit is kind of family.

In the evening there was a bbq with lots of beer and even more stories about the happy days, crashed tanks, tanks sunken in mud, exercises which went wrong (or good) and the deployments to Bosnia (with tanks) and Iraq and Afghanistan (without tanks).

Regards,
Lesley
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TrevorLarkum
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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 3:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Last four shots fired by the Dutch heavy cav

A sad day, indeed.

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