±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 619
Total: 619
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Photo Gallery
02: Community Forums
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: CPGlang
06: Photo Gallery
07: Community Forums
08: Photo Gallery
09: Home
10: Photo Gallery
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: Community Forums
14: Community Forums
15: Photo Gallery
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Downloads
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Photo Gallery
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: Community Forums
30: Home
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Photo Gallery
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Photo Gallery
37: Community Forums
38: Home
39: Community Forums
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Downloads
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Photo Gallery
53: News Archive
54: Community Forums
55: Home
56: Photo Gallery
57: Community Forums
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Member Screenshots
62: CPGlang
63: Home
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: CPGlang
67: Downloads
68: Community Forums
69: Community Forums
70: Photo Gallery
71: Downloads
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: News Archive
78: Community Forums
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Photo Gallery
83: Community Forums
84: Home
85: Member Screenshots
86: Community Forums
87: Community Forums
88: Home
89: Member Screenshots
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Photo Gallery
95: CPGlang
96: Community Forums
97: Downloads
98: Photo Gallery
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Community Forums
102: Statistics
103: Community Forums
104: CPGlang
105: Community Forums
106: Community Forums
107: Community Forums
108: Community Forums
109: Community Forums
110: Your Account
111: Community Forums
112: Community Forums
113: Community Forums
114: Community Forums
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Community Forums
118: Community Forums
119: Community Forums
120: Member Screenshots
121: Community Forums
122: Community Forums
123: Community Forums
124: Photo Gallery
125: Home
126: Community Forums
127: Home
128: Community Forums
129: Community Forums
130: Downloads
131: Community Forums
132: Downloads
133: Community Forums
134: Community Forums
135: Community Forums
136: Photo Gallery
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Photo Gallery
140: Home
141: Home
142: Home
143: Statistics
144: Community Forums
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Photo Gallery
148: Community Forums
149: Photo Gallery
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Community Forums
153: Community Forums
154: Community Forums
155: Community Forums
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Downloads
160: Community Forums
161: Your Account
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Photo Gallery
167: Community Forums
168: Photo Gallery
169: Member Screenshots
170: Photo Gallery
171: Community Forums
172: Community Forums
173: Photo Gallery
174: Community Forums
175: Community Forums
176: Community Forums
177: Community Forums
178: Community Forums
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: Home
185: Community Forums
186: Photo Gallery
187: Community Forums
188: Photo Gallery
189: Home
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Community Forums
194: Community Forums
195: Home
196: CPGlang
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: Photo Gallery
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: Community Forums
204: Community Forums
205: Photo Gallery
206: Photo Gallery
207: Community Forums
208: Photo Gallery
209: Community Forums
210: Community Forums
211: Community Forums
212: Photo Gallery
213: Photo Gallery
214: LinkToUs
215: Community Forums
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: Community Forums
220: Photo Gallery
221: Community Forums
222: Community Forums
223: Community Forums
224: Photo Gallery
225: Photo Gallery
226: Your Account
227: Photo Gallery
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: Community Forums
232: Community Forums
233: Community Forums
234: Community Forums
235: Community Forums
236: Statistics
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: Community Forums
240: Your Account
241: Home
242: Community Forums
243: Community Forums
244: CPGlang
245: Photo Gallery
246: Community Forums
247: Community Forums
248: Photo Gallery
249: Community Forums
250: Photo Gallery
251: Community Forums
252: Community Forums
253: Community Forums
254: Community Forums
255: Community Forums
256: Home
257: Community Forums
258: Community Forums
259: Community Forums
260: Community Forums
261: Community Forums
262: Community Forums
263: Community Forums
264: Downloads
265: Community Forums
266: Photo Gallery
267: Community Forums
268: Member Screenshots
269: Community Forums
270: Community Forums
271: CPGlang
272: Community Forums
273: Downloads
274: Home
275: Community Forums
276: Home
277: Community Forums
278: Member Screenshots
279: Photo Gallery
280: Photo Gallery
281: Community Forums
282: Member Screenshots
283: Community Forums
284: Home
285: Community Forums
286: Community Forums
287: Community Forums
288: Community Forums
289: Photo Gallery
290: Community Forums
291: Photo Gallery
292: Community Forums
293: Community Forums
294: Community Forums
295: Home
296: Member Screenshots
297: Community Forums
298: Community Forums
299: Downloads
300: Community Forums
301: Downloads
302: Community Forums
303: News
304: Photo Gallery
305: Community Forums
306: Photo Gallery
307: Photo Gallery
308: Community Forums
309: Community Forums
310: Community Forums
311: Photo Gallery
312: Community Forums
313: Community Forums
314: Community Forums
315: Photo Gallery
316: Community Forums
317: Downloads
318: Community Forums
319: Community Forums
320: Community Forums
321: Community Forums
322: Community Forums
323: Community Forums
324: Home
325: Community Forums
326: Your Account
327: Community Forums
328: Community Forums
329: Photo Gallery
330: Statistics
331: Community Forums
332: Community Forums
333: Community Forums
334: Community Forums
335: Community Forums
336: Photo Gallery
337: Community Forums
338: Community Forums
339: Community Forums
340: Community Forums
341: Community Forums
342: Community Forums
343: Community Forums
344: Home
345: Photo Gallery
346: Community Forums
347: Community Forums
348: Community Forums
349: Community Forums
350: Community Forums
351: Community Forums
352: Community Forums
353: Community Forums
354: Community Forums
355: Community Forums
356: Home
357: Community Forums
358: Community Forums
359: Community Forums
360: Photo Gallery
361: Community Forums
362: Community Forums
363: Community Forums
364: Community Forums
365: Community Forums
366: Community Forums
367: Home
368: Your Account
369: Community Forums
370: Downloads
371: Community Forums
372: Community Forums
373: Community Forums
374: Community Forums
375: Home
376: Community Forums
377: Community Forums
378: Community Forums
379: Community Forums
380: Community Forums
381: Community Forums
382: Community Forums
383: Photo Gallery
384: Downloads
385: Community Forums
386: Community Forums
387: Downloads
388: Community Forums
389: Photo Gallery
390: Photo Gallery
391: Community Forums
392: Photo Gallery
393: Home
394: Community Forums
395: Community Forums
396: Downloads
397: Community Forums
398: Your Account
399: Community Forums
400: Community Forums
401: Community Forums
402: CPGlang
403: Photo Gallery
404: Home
405: Photo Gallery
406: Community Forums
407: Community Forums
408: Community Forums
409: Community Forums
410: Home
411: Home
412: Community Forums
413: Home
414: Community Forums
415: Home
416: Community Forums
417: Community Forums
418: Community Forums
419: Community Forums
420: Your Account
421: Photo Gallery
422: Community Forums
423: Community Forums
424: Home
425: Community Forums
426: Home
427: Photo Gallery
428: Community Forums
429: Community Forums
430: Photo Gallery
431: Community Forums
432: Community Forums
433: Community Forums
434: Photo Gallery
435: Community Forums
436: Home
437: Community Forums
438: Downloads
439: Photo Gallery
440: Statistics
441: Home
442: Community Forums
443: Member Screenshots
444: Photo Gallery
445: Community Forums
446: Community Forums
447: Photo Gallery
448: Photo Gallery
449: Community Forums
450: Community Forums
451: Community Forums
452: Community Forums
453: Community Forums
454: Downloads
455: Community Forums
456: Community Forums
457: Community Forums
458: Member Screenshots
459: Community Forums
460: Downloads
461: Community Forums
462: Community Forums
463: Downloads
464: Community Forums
465: Community Forums
466: Community Forums
467: Community Forums
468: Community Forums
469: Community Forums
470: Your Account
471: Member Screenshots
472: Community Forums
473: Community Forums
474: Photo Gallery
475: Community Forums
476: Photo Gallery
477: Community Forums
478: Community Forums
479: Community Forums
480: Community Forums
481: Community Forums
482: Community Forums
483: Community Forums
484: Photo Gallery
485: Community Forums
486: Community Forums
487: Home
488: Community Forums
489: News
490: CPGlang
491: Community Forums
492: Community Forums
493: Community Forums
494: Community Forums
495: CPGlang
496: Photo Gallery
497: Community Forums
498: Community Forums
499: News Archive
500: Photo Gallery
501: Home
502: Community Forums
503: Community Forums
504: Community Forums
505: Community Forums
506: Photo Gallery
507: Community Forums
508: Downloads
509: Community Forums
510: Community Forums
511: Community Forums
512: Downloads
513: Community Forums
514: Community Forums
515: Community Forums
516: Photo Gallery
517: Community Forums
518: Community Forums
519: Community Forums
520: Community Forums
521: Downloads
522: Community Forums
523: Community Forums
524: Community Forums
525: Community Forums
526: Community Forums
527: Photo Gallery
528: Member Screenshots
529: Photo Gallery
530: Community Forums
531: Community Forums
532: Community Forums
533: Community Forums
534: Community Forums
535: Member Screenshots
536: Member Screenshots
537: Community Forums
538: Community Forums
539: Downloads
540: Community Forums
541: Community Forums
542: Community Forums
543: Community Forums
544: Photo Gallery
545: Community Forums
546: Community Forums
547: Community Forums
548: Community Forums
549: Photo Gallery
550: Community Forums
551: Photo Gallery
552: Photo Gallery
553: Community Forums
554: Community Forums
555: Community Forums
556: Community Forums
557: Community Forums
558: Community Forums
559: Community Forums
560: Photo Gallery
561: Community Forums
562: Community Forums
563: Community Forums
564: Community Forums
565: Community Forums
566: Community Forums
567: Home
568: Community Forums
569: Member Screenshots
570: Home
571: Community Forums
572: Photo Gallery
573: Community Forums
574: Community Forums
575: Community Forums
576: Photo Gallery
577: Home
578: Community Forums
579: Community Forums
580: Community Forums
581: Community Forums
582: Community Forums
583: Community Forums
584: Downloads
585: Community Forums
586: Downloads
587: Photo Gallery
588: Community Forums
589: Community Forums
590: Photo Gallery
591: Member Screenshots
592: Community Forums
593: Community Forums
594: Community Forums
595: Community Forums
596: CPGlang
597: News Archive
598: Community Forums
599: Community Forums
600: Community Forums
601: Community Forums
602: Community Forums
603: Photo Gallery
604: Community Forums
605: Community Forums
606: Your Account
607: Community Forums
608: Photo Gallery
609: Member Screenshots
610: Community Forums
611: Community Forums
612: Community Forums
613: Community Forums
614: Photo Gallery
615: Home
616: Photo Gallery
617: Community Forums
618: Photo Gallery
619: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
New Visit to a familiar Sherman...
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
binder001
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 363

PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:01 am
Post subject: New Visit to a familiar Sherman...

Funny how you tank things forgranted just becuase they are close. The M4A3E8 in front of the Nebraska National Guard Museum in Lincoln Ne is an example. I have been on it multiple times over the years and have taken many photos, but today I found stuff I hadn't seen before. Maybe it was the new glasses?

First, the old girl does have a factory number on the right hand upper glacis. Unfortunately it's been painted over so many times that you can only really be sure of the "1" .

Gary B.
Back to top
View user's profile
binder001
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 363

PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:25 am
Post subject: Re: New Visit to a familiar Sherman...

Another detail - this tank is not an original HVSS! I had looked at the front HVSS bogie brackets and they have bolts down the sides, but the top is welded on, then I looked at the #2 and #3 brackets and guess what - welded on! Here is the right front bracket.
Back to top
View user's profile
binder001
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 363

PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:28 am
Post subject: Re: New Visit to a familiar Sherman...

here is the left #2 bracket. Note the bolt holes are on the bracket, but the bracket is welded in place.
Back to top
View user's profile
binder001
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 363

PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:32 am
Post subject: Re: New Visit to a familiar Sherman...

Here is a shot of the welded on idler bracket on the tank's right side
Back to top
View user's profile
binder001
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 363

PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:33 am
Post subject: Re: New Visit to a familiar Sherman...

Here are the casting numbers on the top front of the turret - these are the only cast on marks on that turret
Back to top
View user's profile
binder001
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 363

PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:35 am
Post subject: Re: New Visit to a familiar Sherman...

These are the numbers cast on the drivers hatch casting on top of the hull - these are the only casting numbers I could find on the hull.
Back to top
View user's profile
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:36 am
Post subject: Re: New Visit to a familiar Sherman...

Gary

Neat catch.

If you have the SN off of the rear tow eyelets I'll bet 'someone' might be able to determine if the tank was a returned combat veteran, rebuilt in the late 40's/50's.

Too bad you can't get inside to see if data plate is present....

Regards
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
binder001
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 363

PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:47 am
Post subject: Re: New Visit to a familiar Sherman...

Kurt Laughlin once asked about weld scars on the rear (possibly indicating spare track brackets from a VVSS hull). I thought there were not. Today it occurred to me that the pitting on the left of the rear plate is suspiciously in two straight lines. I didn't they were weld scars, but perhaps these are the remains of ground-off weldments???
Back to top
View user's profile
binder001
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 363

PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:50 am
Post subject: Re: New Visit to a familiar Sherman...

- Dontos
Neat catch. If you have the SN off of the rear tow eyelets I'll bet 'someone' might be able to determine if the tank was a returned combat veteran, rebuilt in the late 40's/50's. Too bad you can't get inside to see if data plate is present.... Regards
Don


I agree. The towing lugs are covered in paint, etc. I would have to get permission to scratch off the paint. Unfortuantely, the blasted ArNG gave it a GI paint job of CARC green. EGAD! I'd probably have to use a blow torch to burn that stuff off.

Gary
Back to top
View user's profile
binder001
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 363

PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:58 am
Post subject: Re: New Visit to a familiar Sherman...

For trivia buffs, here is a shot of a mediocre job of welding up the opening for a 2" smoke mortar.
Back to top
View user's profile
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:58 am
Post subject: Re: New Visit to a familiar Sherman...

Ballpeen hammer & Sandpaper will do the trick.....

CARC is some nasty stuff, don't torch it.....

The easier solution is to attempt to gain official (or unofficial...he he he) access. Even if the data plate is not present, the SN will be stamped in the hull 'behind' the data plate on the drivers compartment left side sponson.

Besides, there might be other data plates present to give some dated references on the main gun mount, and then theres the stamped info in the breech and gun tube....

Regards
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:27 am
Post subject: Re: New Visit to a familiar Sherman...

Hi Folks!

- binder001

Here is a shot of the welded on idler bracket on the tank's right side


Notice the cut in the edge of the hull to the left of the mount.

Over on Missing Lynx those cuts came up. Here is what was posted over there:

If it was a clean cut, the hull was build at the factory for the E8 system.
If the cut was done with a cutting torch, then is was a post factory conversion.

The cut provides clearance to remove the inter road wheels without removing the bogie.

Not an origanal E8?

I am confuzed by the Sherman once again!
Sgt, Scouts out!

Don't know where the photo went, but it is the third one down from the top.

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Kurt_Laughlin
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 577

PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:18 am
Post subject: Re: New Visit to a familiar Sherman...

- Roy_A_Lingle


Notice the cut in the edge of the hull to the left of the mount.

Over on Missing Lynx those cuts came up. Here is what was posted over there:

If it was a clean cut, the hull was build at the factory for the E8 system.
If the cut was done with a cutting torch, then is was a post factory conversion.

The cut provides clearance to remove the inter road wheels without removing the bogie.

Not an origanal E8?

I am confuzed by the Sherman once again!
Sgt, Scouts out!

Don't know where the photo went, but it is the third one down from the top.


That rule of thumb is mostly correct, but not completely. There are converted tanks with clean hull cuts. The definitive feature is how the bogies, idler brackets, and return roller brackets were attached. If they use plug welds and have a weld all around their perimeter, it is a VVSS tank converted to HVSS. If the brackets use bolts in all locations, the tank was built as HVSS.

KL
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
binder001
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 363

PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:44 pm
Post subject: Re: New Visit to a familiar Sherman...

So this tank, which I assumed for years to be "hum drum" was in fact a VVSS M4A3 that was depot converted to HVSS? Funny how you can still learn new things about "old friends".

Does the presence of a factory number on the glacis give a hint as to the factory?

Gary
Back to top
View user's profile
Kurt_Laughlin
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 577

PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:56 pm
Post subject: Re: New Visit to a familiar Sherman...

Hi Gary:

Yup, ex-VVSS. The scars on the rear plate are where the VVSS track block holders were attached:

the.shadock.free.fr/Ta...age37.html

Without the serial though, you can't tell if it originally was a 75mm, 76mm, or 105mm tank.

I can't see exactly where than number comes from but most likely not. On large hatch M4A3s there are two key features that tell the factory:

1. Notch by differential bolt strip (shape of the weld filler)

On Fisher tanks it is rectangular, indicating the bolt strip was finish machined using a pain milling cutter:

the.shadock.free.fr/Ta...age23.html

Chrysler apparently used an end mill, leaving a D-shaped notch and filler:

the.shadock.free.fr/Ta...age20.html

2. Hull side stampings

Fisher put their build or sequence numbers on the left front corner:

the.shadock.free.fr/Ta...age44.html

While Chrysler put theirs on the right side edge of the glacis plate itself, as seen on page 11 of my guide:

www.scribd.com/doc/194...-Locations

If you are willing to revisit some more of your "old friends", my offer of a paying for a tank of gas to help out still holds!

KL


Last edited by Kurt_Laughlin on Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum