±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: nbrich1
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6596

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 98
Total: 98
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Downloads
02: Community Forums
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: Photo Gallery
06: Photo Gallery
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: News
10: Community Forums
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: Photo Gallery
14: Community Forums
15: Photo Gallery
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Member Screenshots
20: Photo Gallery
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: Community Forums
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Photo Gallery
36: Photo Gallery
37: Photo Gallery
38: Downloads
39: Community Forums
40: Community Forums
41: Home
42: Community Forums
43: Community Forums
44: Photo Gallery
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: Photo Gallery
48: Community Forums
49: Home
50: Community Forums
51: Photo Gallery
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Photo Gallery
56: Community Forums
57: Community Forums
58: News
59: Community Forums
60: Home
61: Community Forums
62: Community Forums
63: Community Forums
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Member Screenshots
68: Photo Gallery
69: Downloads
70: Community Forums
71: Community Forums
72: Photo Gallery
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Home
78: Community Forums
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Photo Gallery
84: Home
85: Home
86: Photo Gallery
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Photo Gallery
91: Photo Gallery
92: Photo Gallery
93: Downloads
94: Community Forums
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Community Forums
98: Photo Gallery

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Surviving Grant CDL/T-10 Shop Tractor (Leaflet)
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Buq-Buq
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 03, 2006
Posts: 84

PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:33 pm
Post subject: Surviving Grant CDL/T-10 Shop Tractor (Leaflet)

While browsing an online photo collection of the Indian Ahmednegar Cavalry Tank Museum, I found photos of a surviving Grant CDL tank. The vehicle has been fitted with an extremely long gun: not a normal M2 or M3 75mm piece . . . possibly an M1 76mm gun, or maybe a fake gun tube altogether (although I notice that there is a bit of taper to it, making me think that it is genuine). The vehicle has the typical Grant CDL-style stowage bins.

The photo collection page:

www.bharat-rakshak.com...ankMuseum/



The Grant CDL:

www.bharat-rakshak.com...4.jpg.html

www.bharat-rakshak.com...5.jpg.html



There are several other very interesting vehicles at this museum, to include a DD Sherman, a Sherman Crab, and a vehicle described as an M3 Halftrack, but what looks to me to be a T48 57mm Gun Motor Carriage.

www.bharat-rakshak.com...1.jpg.html

www.bharat-rakshak.com...2.jpg.html



Mark
Back to top
View user's profile
Hanno_Spoelstra
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jun 03, 2006
Posts: 185

PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 5:11 am
Post subject: Re: Surviving Grant CDL/T-10 Shop Tractor (Leaflet)

- Buq-Buq
The vehicle has been fitted with an extremely long gun: not a normal M2 or M3 75mm piece . . . possibly an M1 76mm gun, or maybe a fake gun tube altogether (although I notice that there is a bit of taper to it, making me think that it is genuine).


Could it be a distored picture due to using a wide-angle lens?
Back to top
View user's profile
Pzkpfw-e
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jul 21, 2010
Posts: 1182

PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 6:15 am
Post subject: Re: Surviving Grant CDL/T-10 Shop Tractor (Leaflet)

In%20profile,%20a%20very%20big%20\"nose\"! The%20one%20auctioned%20at%20Melbourne%20has%20a%20similarly%20impressive%20proboscis!
Back to top
View user's profile
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 26, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:17 am
Post subject: Re: Surviving Grant CDL/T-10 Shop Tractor (Leaflet)

Mark,

this Grant CDL is already listed in this PDF file :

http://the.shadock.free.fr/Surviving_Lee_Grant.pdf

This is not a new vehicle to me, sorry.

However, like other members of this forum, I wonder why it has a longer barrel than other Lees/Grants (this barrel also seems original to me, it is obviously not a fake one).

Pierre-Olivier

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Buq-Buq
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 03, 2006
Posts: 84

PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 4:42 pm
Post subject: Re: Surviving Grant CDL/T-10 Shop Tractor (Leaflet)

Pierre-Oliver, Guys:

Ah! I see! Sorry about that . . . I got all excited. I looked in my copy of the Lee/Grant Survivors PDF, but the one that I have is apparently from 2008 or so.

Sad

The CDL photo in the PDF is great to have, being from a different angle than the two on the Ahmednegar Museum site. Also, the turret is much more clear in this depiction.

Anyway! That gun is very unusual . . . and, now that you mention it, Pzkpfw-e, the M3A3 Grant shown in your lower photo looks to have a very similar gun. I had previously assumed that it was just an M3 75mm Gun, but perhaps the angle of the photo has deceived me. Is it possible that both vehicles mount a larger gun, perhaps a 76mm M1 or M1A1? I have never hear of it happening before, but then again, I also didn’t think that there were any extant Grant CDLs left anywhere, either.

Would a 76mm M1 Gun fit in the sponson of a Grant?

Where would the Australians and the Indians have come up with a 76MM M1 Gun? I am not aware of the Australians ever receiving 76mm-armed AFVs (the Indians did receive M4A1E4 and M4A3E4 Shermans via MAP at some point . . . 1950s?).

Then again, maybe these are just M3 75mm-armed Grants.

Pierre-Oliver, thanks again for the new link to the PDF; there’s lots of great new things in there!




Mark
Back to top
View user's profile
Pzkpfw-e
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jul 21, 2010
Posts: 1182

PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:21 am
Post subject: Re: Surviving Grant CDL/T-10 Shop Tractor (Leaflet)

A Lee with a big gun.
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 22, 2006
Posts: 4632
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:16 am
Post subject: Re: Surviving Grant CDL/T-10 Shop Tractor (Leaflet)

Wiki begs to be corrected. Wink In the article on CDL, it states:

"A CDL equipped Matilda tank still exists as part of the collection of the Royal Armoured Corps Tank Museum at Bovington, Dorset, in Britain. It is the only one of its type known to exist. There are no Grant examples."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...ence_Light
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:09 pm
Post subject: Re: Surviving Grant CDL/T-10 Shop Tractor (Leaflet)

Hi Folks!

I went back and looked at all the M3 Lees and Grants photos I have collected over the years. I remember thinking that a number of photos looked odd, but I didn't catch it. After seeing this thread, I took a longer look and noticed a number of long barrels. After that, I went and pulled out Hunnicutt's Sherman book and review the sections on 75mm guns. A number of the photos in that book have the long barrels also.

In a couple of the photos he calls them "T8/M3 Long barreled 75mm cannons (the same cannon that was installed in the Shermans). This has me wondering about all the shorter barrels without a counter weight. Are those M2s without a counter weight fitted?

Could Hunnicutt have missed something and there were THREE types of 75mm guns mounted in the M3 Lee/Grants?

The only thing I am sure of is those longer barrels are not 76mm cannons.

Sgt, Scouts out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 22, 2006
Posts: 4632
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Surviving Grant CDL/T-10 Shop Tractor (Leaflet)

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Folks!

I went back and looked at all the M3 Lees and Grants photos I have collected over the years. I remember thinking that a number of photos looked odd, but I didn't catch it. After seeing this thread, I took a longer look and noticed a number of long barrels. After that, I went and pulled out Hunnicutt's Sherman book and review the sections on 75mm guns. A number of the photos in that book have the long barrels also.

In a couple of the photos he calls them "T8/M3 Long barreled 75mm cannons (the same cannon that was installed in the Shermans). This has me wondering about all the shorter barrels without a counter weight. Are those M2s without a counter weight fitted?

Could Hunnicutt have missed something and there were THREE types of 75mm guns mounted in the M3 Lee/Grants?

The only thing I am sure of is those longer barrels are not 76mm cannons.

Sgt, Scouts out!


Could some of those have been command vehicles with a fake gun welded on like an M31? Just guessing, 'cause the guns actually look "real" enough with functional elevation provisions.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Pzkpfw-e
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jul 21, 2010
Posts: 1182

PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 3:29 am
Post subject: Re: Surviving Grant CDL/T-10 Shop Tractor (Leaflet)

The long barrels do look fully functional, not just rolled, sheet metal, like the M31's "barrel"
Are these the same 75mm M7 weapons that the M10/Wolverine touted?
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum