±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: nbrich1
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6596

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 68
Total: 68
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Community Forums
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: Photo Gallery
06: Community Forums
07: Photo Gallery
08: Community Forums
09: Home
10: Community Forums
11: Photo Gallery
12: Community Forums
13: Photo Gallery
14: Photo Gallery
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Photo Gallery
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Community Forums
25: Photo Gallery
26: Photo Gallery
27: Photo Gallery
28: Community Forums
29: Community Forums
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: Photo Gallery
35: Photo Gallery
36: Photo Gallery
37: Photo Gallery
38: Community Forums
39: Photo Gallery
40: Photo Gallery
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Home
44: Photo Gallery
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Community Forums
49: Photo Gallery
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Photo Gallery
55: Photo Gallery
56: Home
57: Community Forums
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: Photo Gallery
61: Photo Gallery
62: Photo Gallery
63: Community Forums
64: Community Forums
65: Photo Gallery
66: Photo Gallery
67: Photo Gallery
68: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)
A forum dedicated for the discussion of all kinds of artillery topics.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  Artillery Forum

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 4641
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:16 am
Post subject: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

As far as I know, there are only 3 survivors of this model:


210 mm mod. 1935 by Massimo Foti, on Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 4641
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:34 am
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

The 149mm is much more common. It keep serving after WW II. There is one even in Sinsheim


149 mm mod. 1937 by Massimo Foti, on Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 4641
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:44 am
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

A wide-angle shot:


210 mm mod. 1935 by Massimo Foti, on Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 4641
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:01 am
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

A french design, it served in WW I. It was still the mainstay of italian divisional artillery in WW II. This piece is on loan from "Museo dell'Artiglieria" Torino:


105 mm mod. 1913 by Massimo Foti, on Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 4641
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:45 am
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)


100 mm mod. 1914 by Massimo Foti, on Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 22, 2006
Posts: 4632
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:25 am
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

Pretty nice location for a museum. Former Alpini outpost?
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 4641
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 2:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

It's one among the forts along the french-italian border. This one covered the Frejus's tunnel. Since a few years a group of volunteers is turning it into a new life. Their website is in italian, but you can get the idea:
www.fortebramafam.it/

In the same area you can find another two, world-class, much bigger forts, that have a longer history behind them:
www.fortediexilles.it/
www.fortedifenestrelle.com/

All the places above are pretty easy to reach from Torino

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 4641
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:09 am
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

I am taking this opportunity to talk a bit about italian artillery in WW II.

By the early thirties the Army realized the whole artillery was in need of an upgrade, it was entirely based on WW I and large amount of guns were former austro-hungarian (75 mm mountain howitzer, 100mm and 150mm howitzer all were Skoda). The heavy models were the worst of all.

So they start designing and testing new models, the process took a few years, but resulted in some world-class models. Above you can see 210mm:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/..._da_210/22

And 149mm howitzers:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...modello_37

The 149mm gun was equally impressive:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...modello_35

So was the anti-aircraft 90mm:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...e_da_90/53

All the four guns above compared well to anything available elsewhere during WW II. Their heavy Breda tractors were pretty good too.

There were also new 75mm design, but I’ll talk about them later on, once I’ll have some more pictures posted.

Main problem was that Italy had very limited industrial capabilities, and was suffering from a chronic lack of raw materials, especially metal alloys required for modern artillery. On top of that, at the very same time the Italian Navy was building battleships like never before, spreading the limited resources even more.

The Ethiopian War and Spanish Civil War made things worst, the Italian Army spend large amounts of its budget on them and consumed a lot of material from the storage, material that was very hard to replace giving the limited resources at hand. One side-effect was that in the late thirties all the new heavy artillery models got very little priority compared to the urgency of filling again the empty depots of existing equipment and ammunition.

If you look at the history of the artillery pieces I mentioned above, all their designs was finalized by 1937. Yet little if any gun was available by 1940 and only a very limited amount of them reached the front line up to 1943. A typical case of too little, too late.

On top of that, the few that were available were spread too thin, most went to Russia, were they couldn’t make any real difference, and the Italian Army in North Africa kept fighting with WW I artillery, including pieces that at the time already deserved a place in a museum like the old 149mm:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...a_149/35_A
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 4641
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:13 am
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

One of these can be seen in Saumur too. This piece is on loan from "Museo dell'Artiglieria" Torino:


75 mm mod. 1935 by Massimo Foti, on Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 4641
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:14 am
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

Another one on loan from "Museo dell'Artiglieria" Torino:


75 mm mod. 1934 by Massimo Foti, on Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 4641
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

The two guns above are variants of the same 75/18 design. It was also used on the Semovente da 75/18:
preservedtanks.com/Typ...oryId=5400

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 4641
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:57 am
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

The whole set is now on Flickr:
www.flickr.com/photos/...306630228/

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
howitzer
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 27, 2010
Posts: 14
Location: Kolín, Czech Republic
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:50 am
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

Hi,
Do not you know how was the mark of howitzer M14 labeled in your photo in Italy army?I think that the barrel is mark 14,but the shield and wheels are new.
Thank you,
Jan
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 4641
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:49 am
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

The wheels were changed by the Italians to be used with motorized tractors. I can't tell you about the shield.
As far as I remember some additional guns were manufactured by Italian factories, but I may be wrong

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
howitzer
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 27, 2010
Posts: 14
Location: Kolín, Czech Republic
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:12 am
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

Thanks for your answer. I think that adaptation arised progress in 50.years. Leather I don't know if it leads officialy.The shield was probably used from mark number 16, but the wheels are new.
Jan
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  Artillery Forum
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum