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Wanted: .50 M85 machine gun pics
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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toadmanstankpictures
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:03 pm
Post subject: Wanted: .50 M85 machine gun pics

Hello everyone,

I'm starting to work on a disc covering the M60A3. I've photographed 6 or 7 M60A3's at various displays and museums. However, not a one has the M85 mounted in the cupola. Does anyone have M85 pics showing it mounted in the cupola that I can use? Please pm me for more details.

Thanks,
Chris

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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:21 am
Post subject: Re: Wanted: .50 M85 machine gun pics

Chris,
To the best of my knowledge, there is no significant difference between the M60A1 and A3 mount (the latter was after my time, but I believe there was no component change in this regard). Have several external pics (some in color) with the M85 mounted in an A3 (generously supplied by Don, so these likely came from certain archives that would be considered public).

Hunnicutt, uncharacteristically, mislabeled an M85 in "Patton" as an M73 7.62 on page 160 (I'm still recovering from the shock).

Are you seeking interior or exterior views of the gun mounted in an A3 (or both)? Is there any compelling reason why A1/A3 diagrams or images from TM's, etc. would not be suitably interchanged?
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C_Sherman
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Wanted: .50 M85 machine gun pics

There was virtually no difference in the externally visible parts of the cupola or the M85 MG between the M60A1 and M60A3.

The sights were different because some A3s had thermal sights for the TC, but the mount and MG itself were unchanged. I also recall a few small changes in the layout of the cupola (can't remember if the ammo feed tray was shorter or not), but overall it was similar enough that no real additional training was required for 'convert' crews.

I'll see if I have any good shots of the external gun mount, if you need them.

C

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toadmanstankpictures
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:30 pm
Post subject: Re: Wanted: .50 M85 machine gun pics

Doug & Chuck,

I need 3-4 pics showing the gun mounted inside the cupola and a couple of pictures of the barrel protruding from the cupola. Having it mounted in a cupola of an A3 would be preferred just because the disc will be about the A3.

I would use stuff from the TM's but the CD that I have with 25+ M60 series TM's on it is corrupted and no longer usable. On top of that, the MVTF has been a real PITA lately about getting into their library to review and copy TM's.

Any help would be most appreciated.

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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Wanted: .50 M85 machine gun pics

Let's see if Don pops up with anything as well.

JoeD, a little bird tells me, has accumulated a sizable assortment of TM's on all things Patton. Wink
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:33 pm
Post subject: Re: Wanted: .50 M85 machine gun pics

Popping UP..!?

I'll check to see what I have.... But JoeD will be 'your man' for sure...

Regards
Don
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:57 pm
Post subject: Re: Wanted: .50 M85 machine gun pics

- Dontos
Popping UP..!?

Don


Typo. I meant to say "poops up". Razz
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vagabond
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:30 pm
Post subject: Re: Wanted: .50 M85 machine gun pics

Hey Chris,

I've got this shot of the M60A3 in the Wisconsin National Guard museum at Camp Douglas.



I can send it to you sans watermark if you want.
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Wanted: .50 M85 machine gun pics

- vagabond
Hey Chris,

I've got this shot of the M60A3 in the Wisconsin National Guard museum at Camp Douglas.



I can send it to you sans watermark if you want.


That's not an M85 barrel. Looks like an M2 or mockup without receiver and no flash suppressor.
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vagabond
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:21 am
Post subject: Re: Wanted: .50 M85 machine gun pics

Oops!
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toadmanstankpictures
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Wanted: .50 M85 machine gun pics

JoeD has offered to hook me up.

Thanks everyone for your input!

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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:24 am
Post subject: Re: Wanted: .50 M85 machine gun pics

Always glad to help out,

Figure someone ought to share all this trivia I have stored away. Gonna post a new one for Kurt in the next few days since he's into castings and part numbers. Kinda along the same lines as the M48 turret casting part numbers changing because of the cupola change from Chrysler to M1 TT. Not as dramatic but I don't believe it has been covered any where else in any publication. I'm gonna include pictures too !!

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Sabot
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Wanted: .50 M85 machine gun pics

- C_Sherman
There was virtually no difference in the externally visible parts of the cupola or the M85 MG between the M60A1 and M60A3.

The sights were different because some A3s had thermal sights for the TC, but the mount and MG itself were unchanged. I also recall a few small changes in the layout of the cupola (can't remember if the ammo feed tray was shorter or not), but overall it was similar enough that no real additional training was required for 'convert' crews.

I'll see if I have any good shots of the external gun mount, if you need them.

C


The cupola on the A3 I had used a passive night sight, not a thermal one. It worked great...until the gun was fired. Then it washed out your sight and was akin to having a high beam flashed into your eye.

I'm not aware of an A3 with a thermal sight for the cupola, but you could use the TTS to walk in the rounds.

While I was never on an A1, the M85 on my A3 was the same as the one I had on my CEV when I was in the Guard.

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C_Sherman
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:09 pm
Post subject: Re: Wanted: .50 M85 machine gun pics

- Sabot
- C_Sherman
There was virtually no difference in the externally visible parts of the cupola or the M85 MG between the M60A1 and M60A3.

The sights were different because some A3s had thermal sights for the TC, but the mount and MG itself were unchanged. I also recall a few small changes in the layout of the cupola (can't remember if the ammo feed tray was shorter or not), but overall it was similar enough that no real additional training was required for 'convert' crews.

I'll see if I have any good shots of the external gun mount, if you need them.

C


The cupola on the A3 I had used a passive night sight, not a thermal one. It worked great...until the gun was fired. Then it washed out your sight and was akin to having a high beam flashed into your eye.

I'm not aware of an A3 with a thermal sight for the cupola, but you could use the TTS to walk in the rounds.

While I was never on an A1, the M85 on my A3 was the same as the one I had on my CEV when I was in the Guard.


I think you might be right about the TC sights. I recall that there were some differences in the cupola layout, and when I wrote that I confused myself about the sight changes. The A3s had essentially the same cupola sights as the A1, although there is something in my memory about some small differences. Newer version, maybe? And you are correct that the passive sights were crap, and useless. The daylight sight wasn't a lot better than the night sight, either!

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will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
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Sabot
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:21 am
Post subject: Re: Wanted: .50 M85 machine gun pics

I had a brand new passive cupola night sight on my A3. Apparently when I took over my tank and did my 2404, I noted that the passive sight was inoperable. I guess I was the only one in the company who had actually put that on a 2404 and the motor sergeant gave us the only new one the battalion had. He'd been sitting on it until someone reported theirs as inop.

It was truly a great night sight. You could see as plain as day. It's just that the flash from the 50 washed it out rendering it useless for several minutes. I just learned to turn it off before firing at night, then switching it back on.

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