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MAP (Military Assistance Program)
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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mikek92888
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:14 am
Post subject: MAP (Military Assistance Program)

I have done some research at the National Archives on Sherman based exports from MAP (Military Assistance Program). It is by no means complete and leaves a lot of questions since it does not break down what type of Sherman's were exported other than TNKMEM4 or M4A3. I assume most of the TNKMEM4 were probably M4A1 76mm. It also doesn't list M32 which might be included in the TNKMEN4.
I have not yet found any exports prior to 1963. There are some surprises like Indochina (Vietnam) and Tunisia getting M74 ARV's

Country Year Amount

M4 Sherman

Belgium 1963 85
Portugal 1963 19
Denmark 1963 8
France 1963 1484
Indochina 1963 2
Iran 1963 110
Italy 1963 28
Netherlands 1963 98
Turkey 1963 3
Undefined Code 1963 599


M74

Austria 1963 2
Belgium 1963 165
Brazil 1963 3
Chile 1963 3
Denmark 1963 1
France 1963 257
Germany 1963 156
Greece 1963 28
Indochina 1963 5
Indonesia 1963 2
Iran 1963 43
Iraq 1963 1
Italy 1963 118
Japan 1963 15
Libya 1963 1
Netherlands 1963 20
Pakistan 1963 35
Portugal 1963 13
S. Korea 1963 15
Spain 1963 24
Taiwan 1963 7
Tunisia 1963 4
Turkey 1963 168
Turkey 1965 51
Uruguay 1963 1
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Tichenor
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:59 am
Post subject: Re: MAP (Military Assistance Program)

These seems very strange to me as by 1963 Belgian Shermans where already obsolete and replaced by M47's. M74 could be correct they where used until the 80's.

Michel

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Michel_Krauss
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 5:49 pm
Post subject: Re: MAP (Military Assistance Program)

Your information is not correct concerning the dates and numbers.

There is a article written by Hanno Spoelstra about the Sherman tanks in service with the Dutch army.

2 batches where supplied under de MDAP to the Netherlands.
38 Shermans version M4A1 and a batch of 50 M4A1E9, all 75mm

By 1958 all Shermans tanks had been replaced by the British Centurion.

Concerning the recovery versions, I could find no data.
However by by 1968 the Centurion tanks where replaced by the Leopard 1.
So very likely that most, perhaps even all, Sherman recovery variants by then where replaced by the recovery variant of the Leopard 1

MichelK

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the_shadock
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:04 pm
Post subject: Re: MAP (Military Assistance Program)

it seems curious to me too, as the website "charsfrancais.net" mentions that the Sherman was used in France until 1965. The M4A4Ts were converted from M4A4s in 1952-1953. Note that the AMX-13 light tank was developed in 1953, and the AMX-30 in 1965, so there was no need of Sherman tanks in 1963 in France.

Pierre-Olivier

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mikek92888
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:24 am
Post subject: Re: MAP (Military Assistance Program)

I also question as to the accuracy of some of the documents that I downloaded from NARA. I'm also wondering if some of the MAP Shermans delivered were to be used as parts spares (maybe for the M74)or even target range tanks and were never put into service.
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Michel_Krauss
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:11 pm
Post subject: Re: MAP (Military Assistance Program)

I also question as to the accuracy of some of the documents that I downloaded from NARA. I'm also wondering if some of the MAP Shermans delivered were to be used as parts spares (maybe for the M74)or even target range tanks and were never put into service.


The Dutch army after the war would not have stripped new tanks for spares.
Direct after the war about 250 Shermans where salvaged/rescued from scrapyard stocks of the Commonwealth forces and these where in a bad condition.

So there was no need for target range tanks also. because enough scrap standing around. Mr. Green

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mikek92888
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:54 pm
Post subject: Re: MAP (Military Assistance Program)

The other possibility is that these were giving to the Netherlands to be transferred to another country I.e. Israel
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mikek92888
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 12:33 pm
Post subject: Re: MAP (Military Assistance Program)

aad.archives.gov/aad/r...141,217436

aad.archives.gov/aad/r...090,209505
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clausb
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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 7:56 am
Post subject: Re: MAP (Military Assistance Program)

I've come across some of these MDAP records and they should be used with considerable caution, as some list what is intended to be delivered, others what is delivered and they are not particularily precise when it comes to the types of vehicles.

Danmark got 8 Sherman M4A3E4 and one M32B1 in 1952, but it is not the first time I've seen the latter listed under M74. In fact, M74 figures in the documents regarding planned deliveries, but apparently you got what was available in terms of recovery vehicles.

I always try to confirm the delivery data in the MDAP records with data from Danish Army Archives to see what was actually delivered.

With regards to the date, my guess is that the document lists what have been delivered up to 1963 rather than what was delivered in 1963
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mikek92888
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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 9:41 pm
Post subject: Re: MAP (Military Assistance Program)

I was thinking that the date of 1963 was maybe the closeout of the delivery of something to that effect.
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clausb
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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 2:18 pm
Post subject: Re: MAP (Military Assistance Program)

- mikek92888
I was thinking that the date of 1963 was maybe the closeout of the delivery of something to that effect.


IIRC there was some change in the military aid program in the early 1960ies when the name changes from Mutual Defense Assistance Program (MDAP) to Military Aid (or assistance?) Program (MAP).
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Michel_Krauss
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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 8:34 pm
Post subject: Re: MAP (Military Assistance Program)

I have been studying the figures of Sherman supplied to the Dutch ..... and still can't figure it out Neutral

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