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M48 vs M60
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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JeffStringer
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 1:58 pm
Post subject: M48 vs M60

What is the most visible difference between the M48 tank and the M60 tank with the M48 turret?

Thanks in advance!
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SFC_Jeff_Button
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 2:36 pm
Post subject: Re: M48 vs M60

Ok, I might be wrong but for me, the M48 has 5 return support rollers while the M60 has 3. Secondly and probably even more noticable is the front of the hull. The M48 has a rounded nose while the M60 has a straight, sharper edge to it between the fenders. Those would be the two things I would look for. The real experts will probably list a lot more items to distinguish the two apart.

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Tanklord
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 2:38 pm
Post subject: Re: M48 vs M60

The front of the hull is the easiest way if they both have the M48-M60 Slick style turrets.

M-48 hull front is rounded, sort of boat shaped.
M-60 hull is straight across, and bottom and top halfs come to a sharp edge.

HTH Smile

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Dontos
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 2:47 pm
Post subject: Re: M48 vs M60

The biggest question is which version of the M48 vs which version of the M60??

That could qualify as many as 8 tanks.

Here is a frontal of an M48A1. I'm searching for several other versions of M48 that I know I have floating around.

As for M60, Joe D seems to have a good 'corner' on that one...



Don
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mike_Duplessis
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 2:52 pm
Post subject: Re: M48 vs M60

Interestingly, the M60 bow ha a flat face because it was originally planned to include a kind of fiberglass sandwich armor. But the cost was too high so they opted for standard solid steel... BUT the Soviet T64 turned up eventually sporting - you guessed it - fiberglass sandwich armor bow! My my, whotta coincidence!

Another visual difference between M48 and M60 are the cast aluminum roadwheels nstead of steel on the M48. The M60 cast wheels are distinguished by reinforcing ribs running around the outside bead. Pretty late in M60's career they reverted back to steel wheels again.
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SFC_Jeff_Button
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 3:08 pm
Post subject: Re: M48 vs M60

[img][/img][img][/img]
In these shots of the Fort Irwin M48 and M60A3, you can see the difference in the return rollers, and the front leading edge of the hulls.

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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 3:28 pm
Post subject: Re: M48 vs M60

The only thing you can really count on is the shape of the hull, for all the reasons listed by the 'Weed. At a glance, if it isn't the A5, the gun is the quick way...unless it's been upgunned, as was often done (Israelis, too).

I musta' been one of the last AIT classes to train on the M48 in 1971...I've always wondered when that switched over....


Last edited by Doug_Kibbey on Thu Feb 09, 2006 3:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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JeffStringer
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 3:37 pm
Post subject: Re: M48 vs M60

Aaahhhh, thanks everyone!


I know a little here and there, but it's never too late to learn a few more things! Smile
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 3:41 pm
Post subject: Re: M48 vs M60

Headlight shrouds...forgot the headlight shrouds (and these might be the same on the A5...gotta' check).
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jcneel
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:42 pm
Post subject: Re: M48 vs M60

Actually the turret for the early M60 (A-nuthin') is slightly different than the M48 turrets. The back end of the turret is more squared off than is the M48 turrets. Below is a picture of the AEF M60 early turret conversion as compared to the Academy M48A5 turret. The differences check out when looking in Hunnicut's Patton book (a great reference if you can get one).

Looks like the other main differences have been addressed by the others already...




hth

Chris Neel
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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:51 pm
Post subject: Re: M48 vs M60

Hi Folks!

One more item that helps, no matter which direction the point of view is from as long as it can be seen.

The TC's cupola!
All the 48 cupolas are much smaller and mounted a M2HB machine gun.
All the 60 cupolas are much bigger and mounted the M85 machine gun.

Spot Report!
Sgt, Scouts Out!

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Last edited by Roy_A_Lingle on Fri Feb 10, 2006 4:31 am; edited 1 time in total
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:58 pm
Post subject: Re: M48 vs M60

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Folks!

All the 48 cupolas are much smaller and mounted a M2HB machine gun.
All the 60 cupolas are much bigger and mounted the M85 machine gun.

Spot Report!
Sgt, Scouts Out!


...and both were next to useless.
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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 6:57 pm
Post subject: Re: M48 vs M60

That’s was a really good question,
What really throws a wrench in the works is the ability to interchange the turret between the two. BDAR manuals at the time outlined the ability to do just that. The rings diameters were the same. There are 48’s with 60 turrets and 60’s with 48 turrets. They are mostly Non-US models. Taiwan has put modified 48 turrets (LRF/STAB/Thermal) on surplus 60 hulls they got from the US. I think they call them CM-11’s. Get's very confusing. As far as US models here are the simple ways I tell the difference, all are 90mm except A4/A5.

M48, Open cupola, 5 support rollers, gas powered with exhaust center deck, small drivers hatch.
M48A1, M1 closed cupola with M2 TT .50cal, same deck/gas, 5 support rollers, large drivers hatch.
M48A2, Same cupola, new low IR deck with rear grills, gas powered, 3 support rollers.
M48A2C, Same as above but has newer Fire Control system. Longer bore evacuator.
M48A3, Rebuilt 48/48A1, has new IR deck, turret same as A2C, uses M60 components, Diesel engine, also has air cleaner boxes like the M60. 5 support rollers. Some have vision block ring installed between M1 cupola and turret. The prototype of this used an A2 model so it had 3 support rollers.
M48A4, Experiment, Used old straight 60/105mm turrets left over from A2 production. Has the same hull as A3. Cupola is the M19 with M85 .50 cal. Project cancelled.
M48A5, M48A3 up gunned with M68 105 cannon. All I’ve ever seen had low profile cupolas (Israeli?).

They also took an M60 and mounted an M48A5 turret to it. I believe Fort Knox has it. Then you have the oddities created for hard targets. The idea is if it fits, put it together. I’ve seen M60A2 turrets on 48A1 hulls. None of these creations were operational, just an easy way to make targets.

Difference’s between 48 and straight 60 turret.

M60 has M19 cupola with M85 MG. It’s much bigger.
M60 has rear stowage mount for M2 .50 cal.
M60 turret has a more squared right rear. (Like models shown)
M60 base for cupola is larger, sits higher and has a slot cut at the 3 and 6 o’clock position.

Please chime if there’s anything to add or correct, I don’t have my references. My rule of thumb is the hull determines the tank, boat shape front = M48, Flat M60. But that's me.

Hope this helps. Thanks for the vote of confidence Dontos and Doug, I still liked my M85, lot's of places to store pogey bait in the ammo box.

Joe D
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JeffStringer
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:04 pm
Post subject: Re: M48 vs M60

WOW! I guess there really aren't any stupid questions!


Thanks guys ... I can now consider myself well informed!
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:08 pm
Post subject: Re: M48 vs M60

Joe

I knew you'd be up to it. Two things:

M60 hull with M48 turret is in fact in the collection. Damn thing looks brand new. It is a prototype M60.

M48 chassis mounted with M60A2 turret is up on Zussman Range (MOUT site). I've seen it a number of times. The turret has some remote operability when the full system is used for a training unit. Its between the 'school' and the water tower.

Isn't there an tension adjusting arm w/roller between the last roadwheel and the sproket? (M48A?)

Lifelong 'Jedi-tanker' (Abrams tanker Cool ) I never played with the 'dinosaur M60' except here with the Museum. Razz

Don
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