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Hummer Turret or a New Pope Mobile
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 11:29 pm
Post subject: Hummer Turret or a New Pope Mobile

Hi Folks!

Found this photo over at Army Images. Check out the turret on the nearest Humvee.

www4.army.mil/armyimag...photo=9229

For those who don't know how the Army site works, click on the photo and you will get a larger view of just the photo.

Spot Report!
Sgt, Scouts Out!

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Dontos
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 3:02 am
Post subject: Re: Hummer Turret or a New Pope Mobile

Roy

That is interesting. Perhaps of 'Press personnel'...

Don
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mike_Duplessis
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 9:11 am
Post subject: Re: Hummer Turret or a New Pope Mobile

It almost looks like the 'glass' extension is made of old bulletproof SUV windows! Everyone noticed the female soldier 'not serving in combat' (cough cough)?

Has anyone heard of anyone producing a decent M1114 kit? Or a resin conversion of the old hummer kits? The M1114 has now become ubiquitous after having snuck into the Army inventory under-the-radar a few years ago. You could no more do a proper Iraq diorama without a M1114 than you could do a N.W. Europe diorama without a Jeeps or Sherman!
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 9:45 am
Post subject: Re: Hummer Turret or a New Pope Mobile

She looks to me to be the convoy commander or something...though I'd hope that vehicle would be in the middle of the column.
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mike_Duplessis
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:06 am
Post subject: Re: Hummer Turret or a New Pope Mobile

My imagination or does it appear that, for the two weapons we see clearly (her 7.62 mg and a .50 cal Browning further back), does neither weapon have ammo? No .50 cal ammo box for sure, but can't tell if that 7.62's ammo is just hidden behind the weapon at this angle. I had heard we were running short of 'stuff' for all the troops in-theater. Not enough hand grenades or electronics batteries to go around, that sorta stuff. I even heard some units were reduced to propping up mannequins in guard towers so they'd look like they were manned.
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SFC_Jeff_Button
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 11:12 am
Post subject: Re: Hummer Turret or a New Pope Mobile

I almost posted this picture last week. That picture was taken during some change of authority ceremony where we gave control of a FOB and one of Saddams palaces to the Iraqi forces if memory serves me correctly. The glass plates are actually Hummer windsheilds bolted up there, most certainly "up-armored" glass. Not a bad idea as this glass really seems to work. A friend showed me an "accidental" discharge from inside a Hummer that hit the windsheild but did not penetrate to the other side, (5.56mm). The only noticable bumper number, H6 4BDE tells me that a commanders vehicle, but he or she is probably inside and thats the vehicles assigned gunner up top. They must not have expected any action,(ignorant on their part) since the smoke grenades are covered, there is NO ammo lock and loaded, and their general lack of awareness, ie; scanning the area, weapons pointed out and down, every other vehicles weapons system pointing left or right. A very good picture to show what NOT to do in a convoy! My two cents.

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C_Sherman
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 2:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Hummer Turret or a New Pope Mobile

- mike_Duplessis
My imagination or does it appear that, for the two weapons we see clearly (her 7.62 mg and a .50 cal Browning further back), does neither weapon have ammo? No .50 cal ammo box for sure, but can't tell if that 7.62's ammo is just hidden behind the weapon at this angle. I had heard we were running short of 'stuff' for all the troops in-theater. Not enough hand grenades or electronics batteries to go around, that sorta stuff. I even heard some units were reduced to propping up mannequins in guard towers so they'd look like they were manned.


Actually, both weapons appear to have ammo cans. The .50 is hard to see because of the color but it's there, and the nearer weapon has an ammo can sitting below at the base of the post.

Where did you hear they were running out of grenades? I hadn't heard that, although they are harder to get than before. Frankly, there aren't more than a handful of troops that need grenades, and the damn things are dangerous to have floating around. Stupidity and grenades seem to attract each other when the troops have free time.

I had heard about the electronics batteries, mainly because some of the older equipment uses special high-speed batteries that aren't commercially available. The specs I've seen lately for newer stuff seems to have learned the lesson, as they use mostly OTS commercially available batteries.

- SFC_Jeff_Button
The glass plates are actually Hummer windsheilds bolted up there, most certainly "up-armored" glass. Not a bad idea as this glass really seems to work...The only noticable bumper number, H6 4BDE tells me that a commanders vehicle, but he or she is probably inside and thats the vehicles assigned gunner up top. They must not have expected any action,(ignorant on their part) since the smoke grenades are covered, there is NO ammo lock and loaded, and their general lack of awareness, ie; scanning the area, weapons pointed out and down, every other vehicles weapons system pointing left or right. A very good picture to show what NOT to do in a convoy!


I agree on the source of the glass. Definitely armored stuff, and a pretty good idea. 4BDE will usually be the Aviation folks.

As far as the rest of your comments, I think you are being too harsh. Their weapons aren't loaded because they are in a secure base, and their postures and weapons orientation are appropriate for that. Most commanders have policies requiring that weapons be cleared upon entry to a base, to reduce the possibility of ADs inside the wire. This isn't an active convoy, just a parking area. The troops are waiting for the boss to come back, and the female is monitoring the net (headset) just in case. Now, if they looked this lacksadaisical outside the wire, that would be different...

C

OTS - Off the Shelf
4BDE - 4th Brigade, or 4th Brigade Combat Team (BCT); normally 1, 2 and 3 BCT are the ground guys and 4BDE or BCT is the Av Brigade.
AD - Accidental Discharge; an ongoing problem among troops who have rarely handled live ammunition except on a range and under intense supervision...which is pretty much everyone until recently. There have been a number of casualties from ADs. Basic training has been changed so that trainees carry blank ammunition and lock/load and clear their weapons regularly. ADs are usually handled fairly harshly in Iraq, and can have lasting career effects.
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 2:22 pm
Post subject: Re: Hummer Turret or a New Pope Mobile

[quote="C_Sherman"]
- mike_Duplessis
Stupidity and grenades seem to attract each other when the troops have free time.


Be ever so thankful you guys don't have CS grenades like we did in VN. We gassed (or got gassed by) neighboring units just for a hoot.


Basic training has been changed so that trainees carry blank ammunition and lock/load and clear their weapons regularly.


What an excellent idea. Shoulda' been done all along....like for decades.

Good to see ya' around, Chuck!
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C_Sherman
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 2:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Hummer Turret or a New Pope Mobile

- Doug_Kibbey


Good to see ya' around, Chuck!


It's good to be here. I've been lurking around, just haven't had a lot to say lately. Nice to see more of the old crew showing up, too.

It's been fun watching your adventures with SFC Jeff. He put on quite a circus for you. I'm not sure I can live up to his standard if you ever get to Tucson, but I'll show you around and buy you a beer!

C
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 3:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Hummer Turret or a New Pope Mobile

It's been fun watching your adventures with SFC Jeff. He put on quite a circus for you. I'm not sure I can live up to his standard if you ever get to Tucson, but I'll show you around and buy you a beer!

C


You've got a deal! We can hit Pima! (Besides, I think I owe you one from some time ago following your deployment)


Last edited by Doug_Kibbey on Thu Feb 09, 2006 3:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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SFC_Jeff_Button
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 3:13 pm
Post subject: Re: Hummer Turret or a New Pope Mobile

I didn't mean to sound "too" harsh. I have a number of guys that returned with injuries and two that are in physical therapy. They were "hit" when then didn't expect it. Ammo was always present, just not chambered inside the wire. Theyt were strict on that respect. Snipers were not that unusual either, even though insurgent snipers rarely hit what they aimed at, they were there. All gunners on Hummers wore a headset or CVC so they could communicate with the driver, TC, and each other. As for being lacksadaisical, that needs to be saved for sitting on a bunk or in the mess hall. These soldiers are in full battle rattle and manning MG's for a reason. Appearance alone might intimidate someone into thinking twice about hitting them. They look to be "soft" targets. My two cents. (Sounded harsh again didn't I).

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mike_Duplessis
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 8:36 am
Post subject: Re: Hummer Turret or a New Pope Mobile

"mike_Duplessis wrote:
Stupidity and grenades seem to attract each other when the troops have free time."

Nope, that wasn't my quote, but c-sherman who appears to know more what he's talking about that I do Rolling Eyes

Where did i hear about running low on grenades in Iraq? Oh - let me think think think. It may have been an NPR radio call-in show, a soldier phoned the show to discuss the situation there. Same source for the dummies-in-towers comment. I guess radio call in shows would be classed under 'anecdotal evidence', which always is a bit problematic, going back to some famously imfamous WWII combat anecdotes!
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