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Aarrgh!!
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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JG300-Ascout
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 6:41 am
Post subject: Aarrgh!!

www.defenseindustrydai.../index.php

$101.7M for Overhauls & Upgrades of M113 Family APC Variants
Posted 07-Jul-2005 09:05 | Permanent Link
Related stories: Americas - USA, BAE, Contracts - Awards, Contracts - Modifications, Design Innovations, Engines, Field Reports, Middle East - Israel, New Systems Tech, Other Corporation, Tanks & Mechanized, Warfare - Lessons

M577A2 Command PostBAE Systems Land and Armaments in Anniston, AL received a $90 million firm-fixed-price contract for Overhaul of M577A2, M1068A2, and M1064A2 Armored Personnel Carriers, and upgrade of the same to their A3 Configurations. With the vehicles upgraded under the contract, it will have converted more than 40% of the M113 Family of Vehicles to the A3 configuration.

The M577A2 is an M113 "Gavin" variant with its hull modified for use as a Command Post vehicle. The M1068A2 Standard Integrated Command Post System (SICPS) Carrier is an M577 modified for the next generation of automated command and control through the Army Tactical Command and Control System (ATCCS). About two thirds of the U.S. M577A2 fleet was tasked for to either M1068A3 or M1068 (Basic) configurations. An Operation Iraqi Freedom After-Action Review by the 3rd Infantry Division found that M1068A2s or below had trouble keeping up with the M2 Bradleys and other modern vehicles, and recommended upgrades to the A3 system. The M1064A2 is an M113 variant used as a mortar carrier, armed with an Israeli 120mm Soltam mortar in place of the older 107mm mortar of the M106 series.

Continue reading...

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SFC_Jeff_Button
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 3:21 pm
Post subject: Re: Aarrgh!!

There is such a huge difference between an A2 and an A3 model when it comes to performance. I thought most all A2 had already been converted in line units, with the only ones remaining being the ones at such places as Ft Irwin with the OPFOR. M577's are no fun to traverse rough terrain in, when they are slow as well, it makes it that much more frustrating to be in them. I see the M113 family being around another 20 years with constant upgrades to the powewrplants, drive trains, and communications.

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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 3:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Aarrgh!!

- SFC_Jeff_Button
I see the M113 family being around another 20 years with constant upgrades to the powewrplants, drive trains, and communications.


Concur. I think the M113 will be the B-52 of armored vehicles....
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Chris_C
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 7:17 pm
Post subject: Re: Aarrgh!!

- JG300-Ascout
M113 "Gavin"
*twitch*
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JG300-Ascout
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 7:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Aarrgh!!

- Chris_C
- JG300-Ascout
M113 "Gavin"
*twitch*


Whoa!....I don't care for how that reads at all! Let's say: "DefenseIndustryDaily wrote". Wink

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Chris_C
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 7:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Aarrgh!!

Heh, I don't blame you for wanting to clarify. Wink
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Jinx
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 7:51 pm
Post subject: Re: Aarrgh!!

The good people at GlobalSecurity.org don't seem to be quite so "enGavinated", however:

"Initially nick-named "The Green Dragon" by the enemy, the M113 served in all areas of Vietnam throughout the war and was to become one of the most successful armored vehicles of all time. Unlike many other Army vehicles, the M113 does not appear to have acquired an official name or even a widely used nickname. Some advocates have indicated that the M113 is also nicknamed the "Gavin", after an Army general who was influential in the development of the M113 in the 1950s. This is not however, an official designation, and there is some question about the extent to which actual users of the system use this name."

(From : www.globalsecurity.org...d/m113.htm )
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 7:56 pm
Post subject: Re: Aarrgh!!

- Jinx
The good people at GlobalSecurity.org don't seem to be quite so "enGavinated", however:

"there is some question about the extent to which actual users of the system use this name."

(From : www.globalsecurity.org...d/m113.htm )


That would be "none", with any appreciation of the vehicle in it's historical and practical application context.
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Jinx
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 8:11 pm
Post subject: Re: Aarrgh!!

Nowhere in the Wikipedia entry on the M113 does the "G-word" appear, by the way.

And if it ever does.....it won't be long before it is edited out!
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 8:12 pm
Post subject: Re: Aarrgh!!

- Jinx
Nowhere in the Wikipedia entry on the M113 does the "G-word" appear, by the way.

And if it ever does.....it won't be long before it is edited out!


Damn skippy! Wink
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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 11:46 pm
Post subject: Re: Aarrgh!!

Hi Folks!

That Defense Magazine is probley getting their info from FAS.org who is carrying that Mike Sparks B.S. The FAS.org is also using Sparks claim that the M8 AGS is called the Buford.

As far as I know, the only name the M8 AGS has is one of the pilot models which was upgraded is being called the 'Thunderbolt' by the builder.

Sgt, Scouts Out!

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bsmart
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 4:06 am
Post subject: Re: Aarrgh!!

I've always thought a good Cavalry name for a light 'tank' would be the name of Bufords Subordinate at Gettysburg. An Irishman who enlisted in the 1st U.S. Dragoons as a private and quickly rose to Sgt Major (he had prior Service in the British Army as a dragoon) While in teh army he married and he and his wife had 13 (by some accounts 15) children. He was discharged in 1843 and became a Civil Engineer in Chicago.

He was appointed a Lt Col in the 8th Illinois Cavalry in 1861 ( The regiment was raised andcommanded by his friend Congressman John Farnsworth) by 1863 he was commanding the 1st Brigade of Pleasontons Division. He returned to the field after Brandy Station (which he missed) and his brigade was made part of Bufords 1st Cavalry Division.

Hopelessly outnumbered his Brigade held off the Mississippi troops of Hills Corps for about 70 minutes allowing infantry from 1st Corps to form a line. His troops then retired in good order about 250 yards to the rear to the line the Infantry had formed.

A classic use of light forces to allow the main forces to establish a main battle line.

And who was this person?

Colonel William Gamble.

Now what better name for a light armor vehicle than the Gamble?

It's a Gamble that you won't run into something heavier every time you deploy with light armor Smile

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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 4:15 am
Post subject: Re: Aarrgh!!

Hi Folks! Crying or Very sad

Well that set me off! Evil or Very Mad I just had to climb on my old horse and charge off at some windmills.

I stopped in a Global Security to check out their info on the M113. It was looking good Smile until I noticed a link to a side story. Sad

That link is titled M113 Gavin vis Stryker. Evil or Very Mad

So I clicked on their little contact box and sent them a VERY nice note about over looking that one little mistake. Hopefully it will be corrected soon. Smile

Stopped by BAE to check out their site. Not a Gavin in sight! Mr. Green

Stopped by the Army Fact File site. Again no Gavins anywhere! Mr. Green

Then went over to that Defense Industry Daily rag sheet! Evil or Very Mad

Sent them a nice and long e-mail! Refered them to the Army's Fact Files, BAE's M113 info pages, and to Global Securtiy's M113 files with a note to look for the paragraft that starts with "The Green Dragon........"

Then I closed with "The use of internet B.S. in your stories and reports only compromises your integrity as a news organizaton. There are a lot of M113s out there and they have been around for a long time. Everyone who has ever been anywhere near one knows the name Gavin does not have any thing to do with this outstanding vehicle."

Never say "Gavin"!

Sgt, Scouts Out!

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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 5:06 am
Post subject: Re: Aarrgh!!

I'd like to recommend Roy for a citation.....above and beyond and all that.
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Jinx
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 11:31 am
Post subject: Re: Aarrgh!!

- Doug_Kibbey
I'd like to recommend Roy for a citation.....above and beyond and all that.



Hear hear!

(And don't forget to write to the easily-misled folks at F.A.S., too!)
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