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Help with an Experimental Vehicle
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 3:34 pm
Post subject: Help with an Experimental Vehicle

I am battling with a reference in 1954 for a T101 vehicle.


Can anyone help with that?

Unfortunately I don't have any decent references here at home.

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Jinx
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 4:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Help with an Experimental Vehicle

So far all i have been able to find is mention of the contents of a 1955 newsreel, as follows :

"1955/10/27 The President. 1st Pictures of ike Since His Illness (1) Ike poses for 1st pictures in Denver since Sept 24 heart attack (2) antitank T-101 vehicle with 90mm gun (3) fall fashions by Paul Gillette (partial newsreel) SOURCE: 200 Universal 28-721, National Archives, College Park MD"

Found that at : history.acusd.edu/gen/...ls/60.html
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Jens_O_Mehner
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 4:42 pm
Post subject: Re: Help with an Experimental Vehicle

Weeeell,

would it help if I told you that the T101 was later standardized as the 90mm Self-Propelled Gun M56 aka SPAT aka Scorpion?

If you have access to Crismon's "US Military Tracked Vehicles", it's on page 167 of the 1992 edition.

HTH

Jens O.
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 5:20 pm
Post subject: Re: Help with an Experimental Vehicle

Thanks guys

Actually, both make sense.

I (unfortunately) have limited references at home. Guess I need to focus on building up my personal reference collection.

Thanks

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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 5:22 pm
Post subject: Re: Help with an Experimental Vehicle

- Jens_O_Mehner
Weeeell,

would it help if I told you that the T101 was later standardized as the 90mm Self-Propelled Gun M56 aka SPAT aka Scorpion?

If you have access to Crismon's "US Military Tracked Vehicles", it's on page 167 of the 1992 edition.

HTH

Jens O.


The very vehicle about which Jacques Littlefield commented to me: "If you took all the elements that would make a good armored vehicle and eliminated them from the design, the M56 is the vehicle you'd end up with." Laughing
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 5:46 pm
Post subject: Re: Help with an Experimental Vehicle

- Doug_Kibbey
- Jens_O_Mehner
Weeeell,

would it help if I told you that the T101 was later standardized as the 90mm Self-Propelled Gun M56 aka SPAT aka Scorpion?

If you have access to Crismon's "US Military Tracked Vehicles", it's on page 167 of the 1992 edition.

HTH

Jens O.


The very vehicle about which Jacques Littlefield commented to me: "If you took all the elements that would make a good armored vehicle and eliminated them from the design, the M56 is the vehicle you'd end up with." Laughing


...and yet it was fielded, and saw combat service in Vietnam with D Co, 16th Armor.

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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 6:19 pm
Post subject: Re: Help with an Experimental Vehicle

...Fair enough, Don...then again, what obsolete technology still in the inventory didn't get fielded in Vietnam? Wink It was virtually a dumping ground for every WWII/Korean era weapon for which we still had ammo (the good stuff generally being kept for NATO-support forces). M60's went to Europe, M48's to 'Nam (not that it would have mattered much).
Vietnam was the last (or in some cases, only) conflict to see us really use Recoilless Rifles, ONTOS, SPAT's, M-42 Dusters, M-3 submachine guns, etc.
What was too ancient for American troops to use, got fielded with the ARVN.

I think Mr. Littlefields comment was accurate in that he noted the absence of any sort of meaningful crew protection, ammo stowage, machine guns, modern commo, or any of the things we take for granted regarding a complete AFV package.
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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 6:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Help with an Experimental Vehicle

Hi Guys!

Hey now! Stop being so hard on the M56 SPAT! Evil or Very Mad

You have to remember the time frame in which that vehicle was developed. It had be air transportable by the aircraft of the day. C-119 Flying Boxcar ring any bells? Rolling Eyes

The requirment for that vehicle came out in 1948. Production ran from 1953 to 1959. Surprised

The first C-130 was delivered in December 1956, three years after the M-56 starting reaching the 82nd and 101st Airborne Divisions. Confused

As for a lack of armor, the proper vehicle to be comparing the SPAT to would be a M38A1 with a M-40 106mm RR.

It's 1955, your in an airborne tank destoryer unit and you have to go kill some tanks. Which would you rather have? A 90mm cannon or a recoilless rifle?

Just because the SPAT has tracks, does not make it an ARMORED fighting vehicle.

My 2 cents on the SPAT.
Sgt, Scouts Out!

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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 7:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Help with an Experimental Vehicle

- Roy_A_Lingle
You have to remember the time frame in which that vehicle was developed. It had be air transportable by the aircraft of the day. C-119 Flying Boxcar ring any bells? Rolling Eyes


Would that make it the "Gavin Sr."?

I get your point, Roy...not an AFV...I think of the M56 as basically a piece of towed artillery (or AT gun, if you prefer) that happened to be mounted on some tracks (as distinguished from SP artillery).


Last edited by Doug_Kibbey on Sat Feb 18, 2006 7:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 7:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Help with an Experimental Vehicle

Hi Doug! Hi Folks!

M-56 = Gavin Sr! Sound good to me. About the right time frame to.

Sgt, Scouts Out!

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C_Sherman
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 7:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Help with an Experimental Vehicle

- Doug_Kibbey

Would that make it the "Gavin Sr."?


Hmmm...requirement to be air transportable, etc.? I'm thinking this is actually "Stryker, Sr."!

C

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JG300-Ascout
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 7:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Help with an Experimental Vehicle

- C_Sherman
- Doug_Kibbey

Would that make it the "Gavin Sr."?


Hmmm...requirement to be air transportable, etc.? I'm thinking this is actually "Stryker, Sr."!

C


Nope, it's tracked. The wheeled Stryker is a non-entity on Planet Sparks.

An Air-Mech strike from black helicopters is on it's way to your location even now for even linking the words "Gavin" and "Stryker" in the same post. Shocked

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C_Sherman
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 7:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Help with an Experimental Vehicle

Ooops, sorry! I missed the fact that we had made the trip to Planet Sparks. (That place is WEIRD!)

C

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Dontos
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 8:08 pm
Post subject: Re: Help with an Experimental Vehicle

I made the inquiry because the only decent hit on the T101 WAS from PLANET SPARKIE!! Shocked

So, in the effort to try to find a shred of reality (and sometime truth Razz ) I figured that I would pose the question to the DG.

AND True to form, ya'll have not let me down.

Thank You

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Sabot
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 5:47 am
Post subject: Re: Help with an Experimental Vehicle

Rangers and engineers were still using the 90mm recoilless rifle through the 1980s. I think the last combat use of the RCL was during Grenada by US Army Rangers.

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