±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 264
Total: 264
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Photo Gallery
02: Community Forums
03: Community Forums
04: Photo Gallery
05: Downloads
06: Community Forums
07: Home
08: Photo Gallery
09: Your Account
10: Home
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: Home
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: Home
17: Photo Gallery
18: Member Screenshots
19: Community Forums
20: Photo Gallery
21: News
22: Photo Gallery
23: Community Forums
24: Photo Gallery
25: Photo Gallery
26: Home
27: Member Screenshots
28: Downloads
29: Photo Gallery
30: Home
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Photo Gallery
37: Photo Gallery
38: Member Screenshots
39: Community Forums
40: Home
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Community Forums
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Photo Gallery
47: Home
48: Home
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Home
53: Photo Gallery
54: Community Forums
55: Downloads
56: Photo Gallery
57: Downloads
58: Community Forums
59: Photo Gallery
60: Community Forums
61: Photo Gallery
62: CPGlang
63: Home
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: Community Forums
69: Statistics
70: Photo Gallery
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Home
74: Photo Gallery
75: Downloads
76: Community Forums
77: Community Forums
78: Community Forums
79: Community Forums
80: Photo Gallery
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Community Forums
84: News Archive
85: Photo Gallery
86: Community Forums
87: Downloads
88: Member Screenshots
89: Photo Gallery
90: Community Forums
91: Photo Gallery
92: Photo Gallery
93: Community Forums
94: Community Forums
95: Downloads
96: Photo Gallery
97: Community Forums
98: Photo Gallery
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Community Forums
102: Photo Gallery
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: Community Forums
107: Photo Gallery
108: Community Forums
109: Community Forums
110: Photo Gallery
111: Community Forums
112: Community Forums
113: CPGlang
114: Community Forums
115: Photo Gallery
116: Downloads
117: Downloads
118: Home
119: Community Forums
120: Photo Gallery
121: Community Forums
122: Community Forums
123: Photo Gallery
124: Photo Gallery
125: Community Forums
126: Photo Gallery
127: Member Screenshots
128: Community Forums
129: Photo Gallery
130: Community Forums
131: Photo Gallery
132: Photo Gallery
133: CPGlang
134: Photo Gallery
135: Photo Gallery
136: Community Forums
137: Photo Gallery
138: Home
139: Community Forums
140: Your Account
141: Downloads
142: Community Forums
143: Home
144: Community Forums
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Photo Gallery
149: Community Forums
150: Home
151: Community Forums
152: Home
153: Community Forums
154: Member Screenshots
155: Photo Gallery
156: Home
157: Home
158: Home
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Photo Gallery
162: Home
163: Photo Gallery
164: Home
165: Community Forums
166: Photo Gallery
167: Community Forums
168: Community Forums
169: Photo Gallery
170: Community Forums
171: Home
172: Photo Gallery
173: Photo Gallery
174: Community Forums
175: Home
176: Community Forums
177: Downloads
178: Photo Gallery
179: Photo Gallery
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Photo Gallery
183: Community Forums
184: Member Screenshots
185: Community Forums
186: Photo Gallery
187: Photo Gallery
188: Community Forums
189: Photo Gallery
190: Community Forums
191: Photo Gallery
192: Community Forums
193: Photo Gallery
194: Downloads
195: Community Forums
196: Photo Gallery
197: Photo Gallery
198: Community Forums
199: Community Forums
200: Photo Gallery
201: Photo Gallery
202: Photo Gallery
203: Community Forums
204: Community Forums
205: Community Forums
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: News Archive
209: Statistics
210: Photo Gallery
211: Home
212: Community Forums
213: Home
214: Community Forums
215: Community Forums
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Home
219: Community Forums
220: Photo Gallery
221: Community Forums
222: News Archive
223: Community Forums
224: Photo Gallery
225: Photo Gallery
226: Community Forums
227: Photo Gallery
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Photo Gallery
231: Member Screenshots
232: Community Forums
233: Photo Gallery
234: Community Forums
235: Home
236: Home
237: Home
238: Photo Gallery
239: Photo Gallery
240: Photo Gallery
241: Community Forums
242: Home
243: Photo Gallery
244: Community Forums
245: Community Forums
246: Community Forums
247: Photo Gallery
248: Photo Gallery
249: Community Forums
250: Community Forums
251: Photo Gallery
252: Photo Gallery
253: Photo Gallery
254: Home
255: Photo Gallery
256: Photo Gallery
257: Home
258: Community Forums
259: Community Forums
260: Community Forums
261: Community Forums
262: Photo Gallery
263: Community Forums
264: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
off topic Vietnam
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
mike_Duplessis
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 236

PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 5:11 pm
Post subject: Re: off topic Vietnam

The comments on chroming reminded me, isn't the current barrel heavier than the initial production barrels?

You look at recent shots out of Iraq and it seems almost everybody's carrying the carbine instead of the long-barrelled M16! Its my impession the two weapons are functionally identical except for the different barrel, stock and any add-on doodads. Am I right, or are there actual differences?
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 5:51 pm
Post subject: Re: off topic Vietnam

- mike_Duplessis
The comments on chroming reminded me, isn't the current barrel heavier than the initial production barrels?

You look at recent shots out of Iraq and it seems almost everybody's carrying the carbine instead of the long-barrelled M16! Its my impession the two weapons are functionally identical except for the different barrel, stock and any add-on doodads. Am I right, or are there actual differences?


We need one of the younger guys to answer this, but are not most M4's also limited to semi-auto and 3-round "burst mode" cycles, or was that only the M-16A2?
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2066
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 9:58 pm
Post subject: Re: off topic Vietnam

Doug,
This is what I know, remember, tankers like me never were issued M16's when we came in, It was M3's and .45's. I carried an M16A1 for gaurd duty at Miessau and also when we gaurded the Abrams complex during the early 80's. Fired it once, seemed very flimsy to me. We had one bend when a soldier let a deuce and a half tire fall on one. I carried an A2 and M4 a few years back and both had the 3 round burst. I used an A4 at Hood while training up, also 3 round burst. A4 handle is removable and is machined with the picatinny type rail so you can mount an ACOG or M68 sight. All have heavy barrels and use a higher grain round (Green tip). I loved my A4. Very accurate. (40 for 40, yeah baby). We didn't get cleaning kits or much CLP for a while so I went about a week without cleaning it good. Just the chamber. Fired blanks and live, Never had a malfunction. Impressed me. I never paid much attention to the brass, but yes, it does have a blue tinge, I didn't know why until now.

Shawn,
The M4 and M16A2 on are all Heavy barrels, the M-4 isn't as accurate because of the shorter barrel. It's also zeroed a little differently. It is prefered because it is a lot easier to get in and out of a vehicle when wearing body armor and all the other goodies. We did have some M16A1's show up in theater late 2002 but they were quickly exchanged for M4's/M16A2's. Couldn't support the A1's with ammo or parts. Same thing happened with the old M60 MG, Though they hung around a little longer than planned, Since parts were it's only hang up.
Roy,
I sure know all about units getting screwed out of training time. Support platoons and FSB platoons usually get the short end of the stick. Usually their ammo allocations for crew serve weapons is given to the line guys for those un-supported live fire exercises. Individual weapons qualification is harder to blow off. Each soldier is allotted a set amount of ammo to zero/group/qualify their weapon. This is tracked monthly and reported up, heaven help a company commander who fails to keep their unit qualified. There is always a range going on. That said, 5 years ago it was not unusual to be running a range and have soldiers show up and not be able to qualify until their 5th or 6th attempt (if at all). These were usually soldiers that found out they had to be there that morning and had no prior marksmanship training, even though they had a memorandum signed saying they did. Made for a very long and frustrating day. It would also be the only time that year they actually fired that weapon. Not the soldiers fault, Leaders. As you said, 507th was at the mercy of their BDE. Somewhere in their chain of command a leader made the decision that maintaining/moving equipment was more important than training combat skills for these soldiers. Not uncommon back then. This war has definately changed how we train the CS/CSS units. Unfortunately it takes a situation like the 507th's to get it fixed.

I am stepping of my soap box now,
Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:10 pm
Post subject: Re: off topic Vietnam

- Joe_D
Doug,
This is what I know, remember, tankers like me never were issued M16's when we came in, It was M3's and .45's. I carried an M16A1 for gaurd duty at Miessau and also when we gaurded the Abrams complex during the early 80's. Fired it once, seemed very flimsy to me. We had one bend when a soldier let a deuce and a half tire fall on one. I carried an A2 and M4 a few years back and both had the 3 round burst. I used an A4 at Hood while training up, also 3 round burst. A4 handle is removable and is machined with the picatinny type rail so you can mount an ACOG or M68 sight. All have heavy barrels and use a higher grain round (Green tip). I loved my A4. Very accurate. (40 for 40, yeah baby). We didn't get cleaning kits or much CLP for a while so I went about a week without cleaning it good. Just the chamber. Fired blanks and live, Never had a malfunction. Impressed me. I never paid much attention to the brass, but yes, it does have a blue tinge, I didn't know why until now.

Joe D


Hi Joe...
Ahhh, the M3 "greasegun". Yes, I was trained and qualified on that one, too...and I'm sure Roy was as well. Quaint little piece of kit, for the price...and reasonably effective within it's limited range. There were still marked stowage points on the walls of the M60A2 for those things....

In VN, when I finally got down to the 11th ACR, you were issued any weapon of your choice that they had. In my case, I had a personally-owned .45 so I took an M16 for my backup (they wouldn't issue both, anyway).

I once, on an assault in-line into the bush when contact had been established, saw the driver of a Sheridan advancing next to my vehicle actually popping off .45 rounds from his postion in the driver's seat as he steered one-handed into the bush....I'm not sure what that added to the hail of lead already hurtling into the shrubbery, but it seemed to make him feel better... Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:55 pm
Post subject: Re: off topic Vietnam

- SHAWN


i just bought an AR-15 with the early upper and lower receivers...

shawn


Hey Shawn, Question for you. Does the bore and the chamber look like they have been chromed?

If they are, with current ammo, you shouldn't have to much of a problem if you are going to use it for target shooting.

Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
C_Sherman
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 590

PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 12:50 am
Post subject: Re: off topic Vietnam

Hi guys,

I guess I qualify as a current user, even if I don't really fit the definition of "younger guy".

Here's the deal. M16A1 was the model that corrected all the problems of the rushed fielding of the M16 (forked flash suppressor, no forward assist, etc.) The original M16 actually had the chromed bore introduced pretty quickly once the rifle was in service. (All subsequent models of the rifle had/have the chrome bore.) The basic problem was that the rifle was rushed into combat (politics, natch) before all the bugs were worked out. Problems with powder fouling and lack of cleaning kits were among the major problems that the rifle encountered and which were rapidly fixed...but not before the reputation of the weapon was irreversibly tarnished.

The M16A2 was a long-planned, late-funded update to the rifle. The stock was extended about 1" to better fit the modern American physique. The barrel was beefed up for part of it's length to resist heat problems and bending when young indelicate soldiers leaned into it while firing. A finger rest was added to the handgrip, the forward assist button was reshaped, and the sights were replaced with a more adjustable version. There were a few other changes, but the really major one was a change in the rifling from 1 twist in 8" to 1:6. This came as a result of an ammunition change, which came because of the requirements of the new M249 SAW.

(The range/accuracy requirements for the M249 SAW could not be met using existing NATO 5.56mm ammunition. The bullet was too light to carry accurately. So the bullet weight was increased, and the stabilizing spin on the bullet was increased by the rifling change. Standardization of ammunition dictated changing the rifling on the M16s. This is also the reason that the M16A1 is no longer used in combat, as the new ammunition cannot be fired safely through the old rifle. However, the old ammunition CAN be fired through the new model rifle, with some reduction in range and accuracy.)

The M4 is a cut-down version of the M16. I've been told that the type classification is actually for a rifle based on the M16A2, and previous M4-looking weapons were actually modifications using non-official parts within the SOF community.

There is no M16A3, as the delay in the M16A2 being fielded allowed the A3 mods to be applied to the A2.

The M16A4 is the version mentioned by Joe D, which has a detachable carrying handle ("flat-top") with Pic rails on the receiver and handgrips. The M4A1 is the short counterpart of the M16A4, with similar mods. The availability of aftermarket bits and bobs on the internet has led to a diversity of appearance in combat, with soldiers tricking out their weapons to suit their tastes. As long as they don't affect or modify the weapon in a permanent way, such customizing is generally tolerated by commanders...although chrome plating of safety catches and forward assists is frowned on.

The "green tip" bullets that Joe D refers to are literally "green" rounds in the environmental sense. Faced with terrific costs for cleaning up lead contamination at rifle ranges affected by base closures, the Army figured out that not-making-the-problem-worse was a smart idea. So, they developed a bullet made of zinc alloys that isn't an environmental hazard but which duplicates the penetration and ballistic properties of the lead bullets. This ammunition was initially viewed sceptically (as is everything involved with the rifle since the initial problems), but it is now the only bullet available in ball ammunition for both the M16 and the M249. (I used tracer ammo in Iraq (red-orange tip), but I never found out if it is the zinc ammo or if it is still lead.)

Overall, the statistical performance of the rifle and ammunition is hard to argue with, despite anecdotal arguments that persist around the internet. Even the SOF guys use it more often than not, only using heavier weapons in special circumstances. The 9mm pistol bullet doesn't enjoy the same acceptance, and a strong move is afoot to return to the .45 for US pistols (but probably not to the beloved M1911 pistol).


C

_________________
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it
will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
-Herm Albright

Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc!
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
oldtop
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 17, 2006
Posts: 70

PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 7:26 am
Post subject: Re: off topic Vietnam

I guess I'm an "ole guy", having landed in Nam in April of 65 (Marines), we didn't see the M16s till late 66 I believe. as for myself being a track-mec/ scout in a Ontos (hi dontos) plt. I kept my M14. The M16 I first saw going into service didn't have chromed bores or chambers. The first problem with the the rifle was there wasn't ANY cleaning equippment, no cleaning rods, bore brushes or lubercants. To help with the problem the troops were given a printed page put out by Colt Fire Arms stating that this was the first "self-cleaning" rifle! Next was the idiotic flash hider (so much for field testing) it was like taking a pitckfork into the woods, everthing jammed into and hung-up in those prongs. Some were along the line they came up with changing to the good ole stand by "Ball powder" because it gave a little more pust to the bullets, as pointed out the gas operating system in the M16 doesn't have an operating piston or rod, the gases vent right into the reciver, the the Ball powder produced far more carbon build-up than the flake type powder. When a round is chambered the extractor catches in the extraction groove, this raises the extractor in the bolt, when the gases vent the carbon begain to build up between the extractor and the bolt, at the same time the carbon was building up in the chamber so it became harder to extracted the spent cartridge case till the extractor slipped off the case extractor groove and left the spent case in the chamber, in the mean time the bolt has gone back and picked up a fresh round and jammed it into the spent case. Now the trooper has a missfire and pulls the charging handle to the rear and the live round falls lose in the reciver because the extractor wasn't gripping the groove on the fresh round...Now you must remove the magzine and shake the lose round out and then run a cleaning rod down the bore to knock the spent case out of the chamber..only one problem, No cleaning rod! And you now have a single shot rifle, beside each dead Marine on hill 881 was a jammed M16...Oh ya, I was on the M16 test program ran by the Marine Corps in 1977.
What made it even sadder was troops didn't at the time know what was wrong with the ammo, they knew it was the ammo but not which was bad and which was good. so there ended up two groups of thought, the blue primer and the red primer, at this time both a red and blue colored primer sealer was being used on the base of the cartridges. Because of this some troops thought the red primer sealer was the bad ammo, at the same time there was "blue primer" is the bad ammo group and the road sides were litered with 5.56mm rounds with both primer colors.
One more thing, at one time 5.56mm NATO was the same cartridge as 223 Rem and most of your AR-15s are chambered for 223 Rem, you can order the AR-15 chambered for 5.56mm NATO or 223Rem, My AR-15 is chambered for 223 Rem and I do not fire 5.56mm NATO in it, there is also a chambering that is for both cartridges. The standard 5.56mm NATO of today produses much higher pressure and should not be fired in a rifle chambered for 223 Rem.
Back to top
View user's profile
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 10:25 am
Post subject: Re: off topic Vietnam

WELCOME 'OLE TOP'.....!!!

Glad you could make it over.


_________________
"Gonna hold my breath until Armor returns home..."
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
oldtop
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 17, 2006
Posts: 70

PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 2:52 pm
Post subject: Re: off topic Vietnam

Dontos.....you get that pig up and running yet?
Back to top
View user's profile
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 3:46 pm
Post subject: Re: off topic Vietnam

Running? yup.... completed? Close......REAL CLOSE!!

_________________
"Gonna hold my breath until Armor returns home..."
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 3:53 pm
Post subject: Re: off topic Vietnam

Hi Old Top!

Good to see you have findly PCS'ed over to the new site.

When you have some time, check out the "Stryker weapons system picture..." item.

Starting about half down is some discussion about moving the M2 HB on the M48 outside of the cupola and why that was done. I'm beting you have some good insight into why the Marines did that.

Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Cloudy
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 06, 2006
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 3:53 pm
Post subject: Re: off topic Vietnam

- oldtop
To help with the problem the troops were given a printed page put out by Colt Fire Arms stating that this was the first "self-cleaning" rifle!


Amazing. This would be an interesting read and a great curio because I don't believe that there is such a thing 40 years later. What an incredibly cheeky thing to claim! Smile
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 1:14 pm
Post subject: Re: off topic Vietnam

- Cloudy
- oldtop
To help with the problem the troops were given a printed page put out by Colt Fire Arms stating that this was the first "self-cleaning" rifle!


Amazing. This would be an interesting read and a great curio because I don't believe that there is such a thing 40 years later. What an incredibly cheeky thing to claim! )
After dealing with a 'continuious cleaning oven' a few years back I think even my wife would see through the claim of a 'self cleaning rifle'

Give the troops a printed page. Yea right. I still remember getting backorder receipts instead of long johns, gloves and a field jacket liner my first winter on the flightline. The paper receipts did me a lot of good that winter.

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
SHAWN
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 31, 2006
Posts: 484

PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 3:53 pm
Post subject: Re: off topic Vietnam

hey bob, those receipts were at least softer than the issue t.p.

okay, one of you fellas tell me-- i am not able to link to pics in this quick reply?
well, anyway,

roy, i have pics of the AR15 in a gallery i posted at this site here.
the bore and chamber are chromed. the bolt is a bolt that will work with the forward assist (non technical term-- has the machined slash/rachet marks on the starboard side). it has the early upper and lower receivers, and a birdcage flash suppressor (early f.s. was the 3-prong f.s.) what folks consider the pitch fork for getting tangled in everything!
i believe it has the 1:10 (or is it the 1:12?) twist barrel. oh, i dont think i will have a problem with the rifle, i am not using it under the same conditions as the when the weapon had been introduced.

i will keep looking for more early combat reports for the AR15. i found hal moore's aar from lz x-ray.

interesting to note that many of the problems had been acknowledged and remedies were being made to correct the issues as the rifles were being fielded (1964, 1965). as someone else mentioned, knowledge of malfunctions, etc. haunted the weapon even after the problems were corrected.
many features which would go into the M16A1 were being added to the rifle... if you look at the pics from the 7th cav (1st air cav) when they initially deployed in late 1965, they have the 16's with "mixed" receivers, early lowers, with an upper that has the forward assist...

anyway, ah, i have found this new site to be really nice. once i get in here and start navigating and using this site it is no problem...

shawn
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
oldtop
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 17, 2006
Posts: 70

PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 5:37 pm
Post subject: Re: off topic Vietnam

Back in 68 (2nd trip to Nam) I inherited my self-propelled gun Arty Baty's armory, there were stacks of M16s on the floor ( if you put wepons in racks the shell splinter from in-coming would chew them in a heartbeat, we had 2 to 3 M16s a week damaged by shell fire...there wasn't a thing in the Baty area that didn't have a shell fragment hole in it including the Admin clerk's in and out basket..the splinters seemed to seek of sleepingbags so when you went to your hardback after a shelling the air was full of feathers ) . Some M16s had the flashhidders mods (birdcage type) some with the prog type. about mid June we turned all M16s in for M16A1s.
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 2 of 3
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum