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Canadian Autocar MG Carrier - WWI
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Kerry_Brunner
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 3:57 pm
Post subject: Canadian Autocar MG Carrier - WWI

I'm looking for photos and/or drawings of the Canadian Autocar MG Carrier used by the CEF during WWI. Can anyone help?

Kerry

nailcreek @ hotmail.com
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J.McGillivray
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 5:51 pm
Post subject: Re: Canadian Autocar MG Carrier - WWI

The armoured Autocar was used by the 1st Canadian Motor Machine-gun Brigade. The unit had its first parade on the 2nd of Sept, 1914, making it the first armoured unit in the British Commonwealth. The following is from the book ‘Worthy� by LarryWorthington:

“The 1st Canadian Motor Machine-Gun Brigade was the brilliant brain-child of Raymond Brutinel, a former French Army officer. It was believed he had been one of those persecuted during the Dreyfus case, and had left France in consequence. An engineer, he was living in Canada at the outbreak of war and conceived the idea of creating a mobile force having armoured protection. It was a revolutionary idea, but he managed to raise money privately, Sir Clifford Sifton and Sir John Eaton being among those who contributed substantially.

“The Minister of Defence having approved the force, Brutinel went to the United States and bought a number of delivery trucks called Autocars, quantities of light armour plate from Bethlehem Steel, and machine-guns from the Colt factory at Hartford, Connecticut. It was illegal to ship arms to Canada, and Germans working in the factory did their best to prevent it. But in spite of them, the guns were smuggled out of the factory and across the border, arriving intact at Lansdowne Park in Ottawa where the unit was to assemble.

“Brutinel then advertised for recruits for an armoured automobile brigade, and flocking to enlist were mining men from the North Country, who could turn a hand to anything. (Among them was Fred Thompson of Haileybury, who had fought in the Honduras Navy six years before.)

“With Major Brutinel in command the 1st Canadian Automobile Brigade, four batteries strong, sailed for England December, 1914. The batteries were named for their sponsors: two Sifton, one Eaton and one Borden. Later a fifth was added, the Yukon Battery, recruited in Dawson City and equipped by the famous Yukoner, Joe Boyle. Shortly after arriving in England the name of the unit was changed to the 1st Canadian Motor Machine-Gun Brigade.

“The Brigade went to France in 1915, but armoured cars as fighting machines were useless in trench warfare. The vehicles were nearly scrapped, but Brutinel fought to keep them, using them for supplies and administrative work. Gradually he increased his mechanized transport with lorries.

“Brutinel was a truly brilliant soldier. He introduced the idea of machine-gunners fighting as a unit instead of a gun here and a gun there. He developed a system called "interlocking defensive cross-fire" which was devastating to an enemy. Also, using massed machine-guns, he trained gunners to shoot from a map over the heads of allied troops, like artillery. (indirect fire).

“The doctrines of the 1st Canadian Motors made military history, and the unit was used to demonstrate to the British General Staff what could be done. Before long a Canadian Machine-Gun Corps was authorized with Brutinel, promoted to brigadier general, in command. Later machine-gun battalions were formed.

“The 1st Canadian Motor Machine-Gun Brigade saw considerable action, but it wasn't until March, 1918, that they went into battle in the role in which they were originally conceived.

“On March 21st, under the command of Colonel W. K. Walker, the Motors were ordered to move up to the Somme to support the British 5th Army. The armoured cars were renovated and the Canadians, as a mobile unit, more than justified their existence - fighting a rear-guard action in the March Retreat that defeated the British 5th Army.
“Previously Brutinel had convinced General Currie that there was a definite role for a large completely mechanized force, and this operation confirmed it. The outcome was the formation of a 2nd motor machine-gun brigade and authorization for a mobile formation under the command of Brigadier General Brutinel, named the Canadian Independent Force. Besides the two motor machine-gun brigades (which were actually battalions), the Force comprised one battery of field artillery, one field company of engineers, one battalion of cyclists, and a mortar unit. Motor bikes were used by signallers, despatch riders, and also for reconnaissance.

“The Canadian Independent Force was the first mechanized formation in the Commonwealth armies and a forerunner of the armoured division. They fought their first major engagement on August 8th, 1918, and thereafter saw almost continuous action until the Armistice.�



www.rcaca.org/En/indexLM.asp?ID=20
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 6:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Canadian Autocar MG Carrier - WWI

Could this be the first "guntruck"?

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Kerry_Brunner
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 6:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Canadian Autocar MG Carrier - WWI

Somewhere I seem to recall that there was one in a museum somewhere ... is this true??
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J.McGillivray
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 7:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Canadian Autocar MG Carrier - WWI

There is an armoured Autocar on display in the Canadian War Museum in Ottawa.

www.warmuseum.ca/cwm/cwme.asp
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Kerry_Brunner
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 7:50 pm
Post subject: Re: Canadian Autocar MG Carrier - WWI

Thanks ... has anyone ever done a full series of photos and drawings? This one would be a lot of fun to build in 1/35th or 1/16th scale!
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J.McGillivray
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 8:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Canadian Autocar MG Carrier - WWI

The Canadian war diaries from the First World War are on line at Archivianet. Here are the diaries of the Motor MG units:

data4.collectionscanad...ml&r=0&f=S
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J.McGillivray
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 8:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Canadian Autocar MG Carrier - WWI

You can order 1/35 scale drawings from George Bradford on the original AFV News site. It is C-28.

www.afvnews.ca/1-35g.html
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 8:47 am
Post subject: Re: Canadian Autocar MG Carrier - WWI

Here is a picture of the CWM's MG carrier at Vimy House back in April 2004.



Neil
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J.McGillivray
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 5:33 am
Post subject: Re: Canadian Autocar MG Carrier - WWI

Here are some photos of the Autocar at the Canadian War museum which I took yesterday. (Note that the white rectangle on the side of the Autocar is just a sign put up by the CWM asking people not to climb on the vehicle.)

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Maple_Leaf_Eh
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 7:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Canadian Autocar MG Carrier - WWI

www.warmuseum.ca/cwm/l...ery_e.html

The URL to the CWM posted previously is the generic entry point. This is a more specific, but not much better part of their site.
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J.McGillivray
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:17 pm
Post subject: Re: Canadian Autocar MG Carrier - WWI

Here is an article about the history of the Canada’s first armoured unit.

www.wlu.ca/lcmsds/cmh/...%20War.pdf
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BruceClark
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:07 am
Post subject: Re: Canadian Autocar MG Carrier - WWI

FYI
Clive Law of Service Publications recently published a book all about the Autocar, relying heavily on the Worthy's preserved car in CWM. Includes scale drawings:

www.perthmilitarymodel...ow017.html

Cheers!
Bruce
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Jim_Coles
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Canadian Autocar MG Carrier - WWI

There's also an article with photos and 1:48 plans in AFV News Vol 42-1 (Jan-Apr 2007) which is available as a back copy on George's AFV News site. Note that the list of available issues isn't up to date, but the snailmail and e-mail contact addresses are there.
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