±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 209
Total: 209
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Community Forums
03: Community Forums
04: Photo Gallery
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Home
08: Photo Gallery
09: Member Screenshots
10: Photo Gallery
11: Community Forums
12: Photo Gallery
13: Photo Gallery
14: Community Forums
15: Downloads
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Photo Gallery
19: Home
20: Photo Gallery
21: Community Forums
22: Photo Gallery
23: Photo Gallery
24: Photo Gallery
25: Photo Gallery
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: CPGlang
30: Community Forums
31: Home
32: Community Forums
33: Home
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Home
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Member Screenshots
40: Home
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Community Forums
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Statistics
47: Photo Gallery
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Photo Gallery
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Photo Gallery
56: Community Forums
57: Community Forums
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: Home
61: News Archive
62: Home
63: Home
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Photo Gallery
68: Photo Gallery
69: Photo Gallery
70: Downloads
71: Photo Gallery
72: Photo Gallery
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Community Forums
78: Community Forums
79: Photo Gallery
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Downloads
83: Downloads
84: Downloads
85: Home
86: Community Forums
87: Photo Gallery
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Photo Gallery
91: Photo Gallery
92: Community Forums
93: Photo Gallery
94: Member Screenshots
95: Community Forums
96: Photo Gallery
97: Community Forums
98: Photo Gallery
99: Photo Gallery
100: CPGlang
101: Photo Gallery
102: Photo Gallery
103: Community Forums
104: Photo Gallery
105: Home
106: Community Forums
107: Your Account
108: Downloads
109: Community Forums
110: Member Screenshots
111: Community Forums
112: Community Forums
113: Community Forums
114: Community Forums
115: Photo Gallery
116: Community Forums
117: Home
118: Community Forums
119: Home
120: Community Forums
121: Member Screenshots
122: Community Forums
123: Photo Gallery
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Photo Gallery
129: Community Forums
130: Photo Gallery
131: Community Forums
132: Home
133: Community Forums
134: Downloads
135: Photo Gallery
136: Photo Gallery
137: Community Forums
138: News Archive
139: Community Forums
140: Photo Gallery
141: Community Forums
142: Member Screenshots
143: Community Forums
144: Photo Gallery
145: Photo Gallery
146: Community Forums
147: Photo Gallery
148: Community Forums
149: Photo Gallery
150: Community Forums
151: Photo Gallery
152: Downloads
153: Community Forums
154: Photo Gallery
155: Photo Gallery
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Photo Gallery
159: Photo Gallery
160: Photo Gallery
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: News Archive
167: Statistics
168: Photo Gallery
169: Home
170: Community Forums
171: Home
172: Community Forums
173: Community Forums
174: Photo Gallery
175: Community Forums
176: Community Forums
177: Home
178: Community Forums
179: CPGlang
180: Photo Gallery
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: Downloads
184: Community Forums
185: Photo Gallery
186: Community Forums
187: Photo Gallery
188: Home
189: Community Forums
190: Photo Gallery
191: Downloads
192: Community Forums
193: Community Forums
194: Photo Gallery
195: Community Forums
196: Community Forums
197: Photo Gallery
198: Home
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: Member Screenshots
204: CPGlang
205: Community Forums
206: Community Forums
207: CPGlang
208: Photo Gallery
209: Photo Gallery

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Oz M113 FSV
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Dirk
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 115
Location: South Africa
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 3:56 pm
Post subject: Oz M113 FSV

Apart from having a high CG , any other adverse effects from mounting the Saladin turret on the M113 ?

Thanks

Dirk
Back to top
View user's profile
Sabot
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 380
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 5:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Oz M113 FSV

I bet the extra weight requires the suspension to be locked into place like the old M163 Vulcan ADA version. Makes for a bumpier ride.

_________________
RobG
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address
Coldsteel
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 61

PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 1:21 am
Post subject: Re: Oz M113 FSV

If the suspension was locked in place it's not mentioned in Military Briefs vol 1 Australian Fire Support Vehicles by John Myszka. I don't think it was, some of the replacement MRVs even had a handhold welded to the back of the turret for the instructors to hang on to as the vehicle rocked due to recoil. The book only says the additional weight reduced the suspension life, reduced freeboard when swimming. In at least one of the photos looks to me like the suspension is deflected. Mind you, with regard to weight, all the hulls for the conversion to an FSV were bought specifically for that purpose, all seem to have the attachment bolts for the addional belly armour, none of the seem to have it fitted, it weighed around 680kg. There was also an extension added to the trim vane to prevent the higher CG from causing the vehicle to "dig in" to the water.

Also mentioned was the difficultly in getting the American and British eletrical systems to work together.

Ultimately in Vietnam they proved reliable and quick to respond when required.
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:45 am
Post subject: Re: Oz M113 FSV

Hi Sabot! Hi Folks!

- Sabot
I bet the extra weight requires the suspension to be locked into place like the old M163 Vulcan ADA version. Makes for a bumpier ride.


That lock out system didn't work that way. It was only locked when the vehicle was stopped. Moving the vehicle with the locks extended would damage the system.

When I was stationed at Hunter Liggett Military Reservation I was in a TDA armored company which conducted all kinds of different tests. One of the tests was for a ground based lazer target designator system for Hellfire missiles. The target unit encluded four Vulcan SPs. During one of the tests, a driver forgot to unlock the suspension after an engagement. That vehicle ended up dead lined until ever road arm and every lock out pin housing assemble was removed. I don't know just what parts were damaged and had to be replaced, but that vehicle sat in our motor pool for a couple of weeks with nothing but sprockets and idler wheels on the hull.

During the day, that lazer system was great. However when we tried the same sets of tests during the night, any IR scope or Starlight scope could pick up the light beam and the OpFor units would know where the lazer team was set up.

Some of my very old history.
Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile

That TDA Armored Company had
five platoons of five M-60A1 tanks per, with only three man crews.
one scout platoon with 12xM-113A1s with only two men per vehicle.
The recovery section had three M-88 VTRs.
The unit was formed by combining an Armored Cav Troop with a tank company, that is how we ended up with three M-88s.
Not counting the machine guns for the tanks and APCs, the only other weapons in the company arms room were two .45 cal pistols. One for the payroll officer and one for his guard.

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:52 am
Post subject: Re: Oz M113 FSV

Hi Coldsteel! Hi Folks!

- Coldsteel

There was also an extension added to the trim vane to prevent the higher CG from causing the vehicle to "dig in" to the water.


That extension on the top of the trim vane was part of the A1 upgrade to the basic vehicle.

Spot Report!
Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
David_Clark
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 16, 2006
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:23 am
Post subject: Re: Oz M113 FSV

Dirk

While the M113 FSV was still 'amphibious' with the extended trim vane (only fitted to FSVs and not other M113A1s), rotating the turret while afloat caused a trials vehicle to literally turn turtle.

David
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:21 am
Post subject: Re: Oz M113 FSV

Hi David! Hi Folks!

- David_Clark

While the M113 FSV was still 'amphibious' with the extended trim vane (only fitted to FSVs and not other M113A1s), rotating the turret while afloat caused a trials vehicle to literally turn turtle.
David


Right you are Sir!

I am not sure that "extended" addition would be classified as an extention. After searching around for some photos of a FSV, I saw what you all were talking about. What I though was called a floatation pod.

www.armouredengineer.f...113mrv.htm

On the original M113, the top edge of the trim vane had a metal edge that extended about one inch above the edge of the plywood. One the A1's that extention was extended to about four inchs above the top edge of the plywood. That was the item I was thinking about when I read the term 'extended trim vane'.

This was another 'alartness test' to see if any one was paying attention to my flub up.
David passed the test!
Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Dirk
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 115
Location: South Africa
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:57 pm
Post subject: Re: Oz M113 FSV

Thanks all for the input.

The Tamiya M113 FSV kit looks appealling ..................

How can one say no to a Tamiya and a M113 kit Wink

Almost have all the 1/35 M113 kits .. Now to start building them Cool

Cheers & again thanks

Dirk
Back to top
View user's profile
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Oz M113 FSV

- Dirk

Almost have all the 1/35 M113 kits .. Now to start building them Cool
Dirk


Ah But are you going to build all 287 variants of the M113?

Cool

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
JG300-Ascout
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 05, 2005
Posts: 6257
Location: Cyberspace
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Oz M113 FSV

- JimWeb
- Dirk

Almost have all the 1/35 M113 kits .. Now to start building them Cool
Dirk


Ah But are you going to build all 287 variants of the M113?

Cool


...plus the "Gavin" variants with particle beam weapons, "Davey Crocketts", rail guns, and Phase Plasma Rifles in the 40W range?

_________________
"All facts go to clearly prove that Shades is a thrice-cursed traitor & mentally deranged person steeped in inveterate enmity toward mankind"
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 8:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Oz M113 FSV

- JG300-Ascout

...plus the "Gavin" variants with particle beam weapons, "Davey Crocketts", rail guns, and Phase Plasma Rifles in the 40W range?


I see SOMEONE is more than familiar with Terminator... Cool

" AH-LLL BE BACH "!! Shocked Mr. Green

Don

_________________
"Gonna hold my breath until Armor returns home..."
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Coldsteel
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 61

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 1:43 am
Post subject: Re: Oz M113 FSV

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi David! Hi Folks!
I am not sure that "extended" addition would be classified as an extention. After searching around for some photos of a FSV, I saw what you all were talking about. What I though was called a floatation pod.

www.armouredengineer.f...113mrv.htm

On the original M113, the top edge of the trim vane had a metal edge that extended about one inch above the edge of the plywood. One the A1's that extention was extended to about four inchs above the top edge of the plywood. That was the item I was thinking about when I read the term 'extended trim vane'.


Actually you might still be right, that link shows pictures of the FSV replacement, the Scorpion turreted Medium Reconnaissance Vehicle. The FSV has a Saladin turret and no flotation pods.

I can't find any pictures on the net that show the FSV with the proper vane on it. It looks like a standard M113 vane with the hollow metal extension and on top of that a seperate hinged section that doesn't run the full length of the vane in order to clear the left hand head light group. I've no idea is this is the A1 modification you mentioned, but as far as Australian M113s go seems to be FSV specific.
Back to top
View user's profile
David_Clark
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 16, 2006
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 1:54 am
Post subject: Re: Oz M113 FSV

- Roy_A_Lingle
After searching around for some photos of a FSV, I saw what you all were talking about. What I though was called a floatation pod.


Roy

The M113 FSVs had a hinged extension across the top of the trim vane (except for the left side where it would have fouled the light assembly).

The M113 MRV (Scorpion turret) used the floatation pods that I think were used on heavier M113 variants.

There's examples of both at the RAAC museum but the online photographs don't show the trim vane on the FSV:

www.armytankmuseum.com.au/i-vd.htm

The best I can do at short notice is a photo of a model of a M113 FSV on the Sentinel site:

www.mheaust.com.au/Aus.../fsvb6.jpg

By the way, and coming back to the original question, the RAAC museum description of the FSV states: "The FSV concept was a success but it was not without problems. The extra weight of the Turret detracted from the amphibious performance, led to a slight decrease in the vehicle's performance generally, and reduced the life on some suspension components."

Regards

David
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 6:22 am
Post subject: Re: Oz M113 FSV

Hi David! Hi Folks!

- David_Clark

The M113 FSVs had a hinged extension across the top of the trim vane (except for the left side where it would have fouled the light assembly).


OK, now that I am on the CORRECT vehicle, I see what your are talking about.

www.armouredengineer.f...113fsv.htm

In the top photo, I can see the extention your have been trying to tell me about. That is an extention mounted on top of the 'A1' extention that I was confused over. I have never noticed the second extention before.

- David_Clark

"The FSV concept was a success but it was not without problems. The extra weight of the Turret detracted from the amphibious performance, led to a slight decrease in the vehicle's performance generally, and reduced the life on some suspension components."


The reduced life of some suspension items doesn't suprise me. If I remember right, the cargo capacity of a M113A1 was some where between 1,200 to 1,500 pounds. I don't know the weight of a Saladin turret, but I would bet that with a load of ammo, the FSV was over the limit. Then what we did in Vietnam was way passed the limit and the vehicle did just fine. I remember I tried to add up all the weight I had inside Boom-Boom. I don't remember the total. I do remember however that the weight of .50 cal ammo alone was over the limit. Then on top of that we would tow a Sheridan with a tow hook that was rated at 7.5 tons!

Sorry about the confuzion!
Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Dirk
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 115
Location: South Africa
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 12:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Oz M113 FSV

- JG300-Ascout

...plus the "Gavin" variants with particle beam weapons, "Davey Crocketts", rail guns, and Phase Plasma Rifles in the 40W range?


Not forgetting the Airborne Gavin and also the Gavin with the 8 inch gun ..... Cool

Dirk
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum