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Sherman
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Joe_D
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Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 6:08 pm
Post subject: Sherman

Howdy everyone,
In my never ending quest for M60's I ran across this little baby. I figure you guys would enjoy these pictures.



I kinda like the one with the M60 in the background since it was the modern Sherman of it's time with all it's variants.

Joe D
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toadmanstankpictures
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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 6:51 pm
Post subject: Re: Sherman

Joe,
Thanks for posting the pics. Where is this M4A3 located?

Chris

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Dontos
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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 7:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Sherman

Damn, I must have missed that one last year.

You've been fishing,.....got a license I assume?

Theres one in TOMAH, that I took many shots of.

Don

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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 8:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Sherman

Chris,
It's located outside VFW Post 2112, Rusk Avenue, Sparta Wisconsin. Couldn't find a serial number on the the rear tow eye either or I would have posted it. I thought I covered the tanks in Sparta last month,then I saw a circular put out by the parks department with their pictures. Up till then I only knew of the M60A3 in front of the American Legion there. Plenty of tanks all over this place. I've found 11 M60's alone besides the stuff on McCoy. I guess it's cheaper to put them on display than dispose of them. Makes me happy.

Dontos,
Nope, I don't fish, besides until today the weather has been pretty bad. Did you find anything besides the '60 and M4 at Tomah that I might be intersted in? I did make it out to Camp Douglas the other week.

Joe D
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 8:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Sherman

Nothing else in Tomah, I searched around.

Not sure of outlying towns.

Heard a rumor there are a couple more Shermans on post 'somewhere', but never found anything.

Don
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tankmodeler
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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 8:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Sherman

Cool! That's a relatively unusual M4A3, that's for sure. You don't often see the 75mm wet tanks in photos, much less remaining on display. I wonder what its service history is.

Thanks!

Paul

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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 8:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Sherman

Paul,
No idea, Might have been used at McCoy for training troops before being put on display. Doesn't look like a former range target. I'm not very "Sherman Smart", so I'm not sure where to get potential ID numbers.I can ask the VFW guys there but my experience is they ask for a tank to display and are happy with whatever they get. I've heard some pretty wild stories about displays when I ask. You have to just nod and smile sometimes.

Joe D
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jcneel
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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 9:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Sherman

I'd like to see some pics of the M60 if you got some. I like the M60s as much as I like the Sherman!

Thanks for sharing

Chris Neel
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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 9:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Sherman

Here you go Chris,
This is M60A3 serial number 3728A, Registration number 09A94568. She started out life as an M60A1 IR, serial number 5637. Probably ended her career at FT McCoy MATES serving the Wisconsin National Gaurd.





Enjoy,
Joe D
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binder001
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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 9:10 am
Post subject: Re: Sherman

Joe,

Very NICE photos!

I agree with other posters that the Wet Stowage M4A3s aren't common in park displays in the CONUS. While common in combat photos, most must have either been given away as MAP, been combat losses, or scrapped after training use. I've noticed that the M4A3 76W is even more rare, except for a few in Europe.

Anyway, thanks for posting. Looks like Wisconsin and Minnesota area is a Sherman lovers paradise. Sometime I would like to see a list of the surving military gear up there.

If you ever get out to Nebraska, we have a number of M60 "A0" and M60A3 tanks in small towns and parks, as well as our batch of Shermans and a few surprises (like the M551 in Battle Creek, or the 8" howitzer in Pierce - neither used by the NE ArNG!)

Gary Binder
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Kurt_Laughlin
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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 5:13 pm
Post subject: Re: Sherman

- binder001
I agree with other posters that the Wet Stowage M4A3s aren't common in park displays in the CONUS. While common in combat photos, most must have either been given away as MAP, been combat losses, or scrapped after training use. I've noticed that the M4A3 76W is even more rare, except for a few in Europe.


Actually Gary, there are quite a few of both of these and M4A3(105)s around. You just can't see them underneath the HVSS and 76mm turrets!

After the war there was a program to carve up M4A2(76)s and M4A2(76) HVSS for the turrets, internal stowage, and HVSS. The end game was to make as many M4A3(76) HVSS as possible. The main MAP tank was the M4A1(76) with and without HVSS, and M4 howitzers. There was talk of upgrading the M4A1s to HVSS as well but I don't think it happened.

This is why things like serials are and the numbers stamped on the left front hull side are important - with them you can see how they were "born". Other clues are the welded on HVSS, scars from the track racks on the rear hull, scars from the aiming post racks, and relocated gun travel locks. (Although this last one isn't definitive.)

KL
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SFC_Jeff_Button
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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 10:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Sherman

If anyone knows their Shermans, it's Kurt! He was a godsend in my research of the M4A3 here at Ft Irwin, (where I'll only be for another 13 days!). Take care Kurt, its good to see you posting and shareing that vast knowledge!

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binder001
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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 7:03 am
Post subject: Re: Sherman

Thanks Kurt. I had heard about some of the post-war depot rebuilds but hadn't ever heard about the stripping of the M4A2 76 HVSS types - although it sure makes sense.

It makes me wish I was more successful in finding serials on the four Nebraska M4A3E8s that I have found so far. Your rebuild program COULD go a long way to explaining why three of the "Easy Eights" in Nebraska parks have early turrets.

Thanks again for your input.

Gary
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JeffStringer
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 9:23 am
Post subject: Re: Sherman

One question:

I understand all the Sherman model numbers and what they mean, but what's the difference between an M60A1 and the M60A3?


Jeff
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binder001
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 1:08 pm
Post subject: Re: Sherman

- JeffStringer
One question: I understand all the Sherman model numbers and what they mean, but what's the difference between an M60A1 and the M60A3?Jeff


Basically the M60A3 was the M60a1 with a higher education. As you may know the M60 series had a continual evolution of product improvements, large and small. M60A3 basically was an M60A1 with all the improvements to about 1978. Major difference in fire control was replacement of the stereo rangefinder with a laser rangefinder and addition of a wind sensor. The 105mm gun received a thermal shroud. Most (all) M60A3s had a thicker turret frontal armor with a noticeable "fillet" showing at the lower nose of the turret. M60A3 also had a few upgrades after type classification.

Gary
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