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Latest from APG (much better weather this time) *PIC*
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 5:49 pm
Post subject: Latest from APG (much better weather this time) *PIC*

Somua S 35. The French like to claim the Sherman was based on the S 35. Apparently it was a very well liked tank in the French army - so much so that Free French soldiers applied S 35 "Somua" badges to their Shermans...

KV-1C,%20looking%20very%20impressive... M4A4%20Sherman%20Firefly I%20used%20my%20zoom%20to%20to%20get%20this%20side%20shot%20of%20the%20two%20T23s%20in%20storage...%20Still%20cant%20find%20anything%20to%20identify%20an%20RN,%20etc...%20Oh%20yeah,%20and%20no%20idea%20what%20that%20is%20sticking%20out%20of%20the%20hull%20MG%20port%20on%20the%20nearer%20one.%20Supposedly%20they%20were%20used%20as%20a%20camera%20mount%20or%20something%20like%20that%20on%20a%20range,%20maybe%20it%20had%20to%20do%20with%20that...%20 This%20T-55(?)%20from%20NGIC%20has%20been%20sitting%20outside%20the%20restoration%20facility%20for%20a%20while...%20And%20yes%20thats%20my%20new%20(since%20February)%20Mustang%20sitting%20in%20the%20background%20;) Okay,%20this%20one's%20not%20an%20AFV....%20This%20artillery%20piece%20just%20came%20out%20of%20storage.%20Museum%20staff%20said%20it%20was%20a%20Soviet%20122?%20But%20I%20cant%20find%20it%20in%20the%20museum%20guide%20CD...%20Any%20identification%20help%20would%20be%20appreciated...%20Jim,%20I'm%20looking%20in%20your%20direction%20;)

Neil
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 6:12 pm
Post subject: Re: Latest from APG (much better weather this time) *PIC*

Did you measure the muzzle? I thought it might be a Soviet 152

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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 6:22 pm
Post subject: Re: Latest from APG (much better weather this time) *PIC*

Ed said it was a 122, and I had nothing to measure the muzzle with (mental note for the next trip I guess)... You're probably right though, too big to be a 122... Only markings I could find on the breech were the German words "feuer" (fire) and "sicher" (?). Of course that probably just means it was a Soviet piece that was used by the Germans and subsequently captured by US forces - like many of the Soviet pieces in the Ordnance Museum collection.

Neil
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 6:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Latest from APG (much better weather this time) *PIC*

I wouldn't want to question Ed Smile He is pretty good and knows that we aren't just 'average tourists' Smile

I think most Soviet 122s had a gun shield with a scalloped top edge. But if it was one captured in 1941 and reworked by the Germans that may not be true.

Ok, get a cheap tape measure and throw it in the glove compartment of the Mustang so we don't hear that excuse again Smile

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Last edited by bsmart on Sat Jul 29, 2006 7:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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toadmanstankpictures
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 6:44 pm
Post subject: Re: Latest from APG (much better weather this time) *PIC*

Nice pics Neil! Thanks for sharing them. The artillery piece is either a Russian 152mm 1910/34 or a 152mm ML20. IIRC, the APG Firefly is actually based on a M4A2.

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JimWeb
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 6:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Latest from APG (much better weather this time) *PIC*

- Neil_Baumgardner

Okay, this one's not an AFV.... This artillery piece just came out of storage. Museum staff said it was a Soviet 122? But I cant find it in the museum guide CD... Any identification help would be appreciated... Jim, I'm looking in your direction Wink


its an ML-20 Mod 1937.. probably ex-german booty.

152mm BTW

Cool

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Cloudy
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 10:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Latest from APG (much better weather this time) *PIC*

- Neil_Baumgardner
"sicher" (?)
Neil


Probably "gesichert" - made safe or secured
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Dirk
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 2:36 am
Post subject: Re: Latest from APG (much better weather this time) *PIC*

Super pics - thanks for posting Smile

About the T55 photo - the AFV tracks packed right next to the T55 external stores - any idea to what AFV they belong to ?

Perhaps a Bren Gun Carrier ?

Thanks

Dirk
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 5:16 am
Post subject: Re: Latest from APG (much better weather this time) *PIC*

I think the British Mk VI Light tank is in refurb now, they might be from that. But there are various tracks laying around the refurb facility that have been there for a while (look at the KV-1 photo) so matching any set with a vehicle would only be a guess. I am pretty sure the museum doesn't have a Bren or Universal carrier in it's collection.

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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 6:58 am
Post subject: Re: Latest from APG (much better weather this time) *PIC*

BTW, with regard to the Bliss York, the Ordnance Museum's XM247 Sergeant York was still sitting in the storage yard where it has been for several years.

However, there was a report a couple years ago of the Ordnance Museum getting a second York... It was started when someone spotted a York on a truck on I-95. Dr Atwater confirmed to me that the Ordnance Museum had just acquired a York from the Charlotte Veterans Home in Maryland. However, I never saw it around the publicly-accessible area of APG. Quite possibly it went right behind the fence, stayed there, and went straight to Bliss (assuming it is the same York).

The odd thing of course is it never being seen on APG by anyone. Generally, when something is about to move somewhere, its brought out from behind the fence and sits around the warehouse, restoration facility or storage yard for a number of weeks before it goes to its final destination. One might also have thought that it would have gone through the restoration facility before going to Bliss <shrug>

Neil
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 7:12 am
Post subject: Re: Latest from APG (much better weather this time) *PIC*

Restoration facility is subject to budget and schedule. It may have been that it was sent to APG (maybe even the Edgewood annex) as a convienent spot to inventory and load it for rail shipment.

But that is all just speculation

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Hellfish6
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:32 am
Post subject: Re: Latest from APG (much better weather this time) *PIC*

Are the Somua and KV going back on an outdoor display or moving indoors/under cover?
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:36 am
Post subject: Re: Latest from APG (much better weather this time) *PIC*

I suspect they will go back on display behind the museum... Or I suppose they could create a new row of tanks on Maryland Blvd. Otherwise not sure where they would put them...

Neil
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:51 am
Post subject: Re: Latest from APG (much better weather this time) *PIC*

- bsmart
I think the British Mk VI Light tank is in refurb now, they might be from that.


Well, hopefully it will be in refurb soon... It was still sitting out back.

Speaking of things sitting out back, the M3 White scout cars. There were two in the storage lot.

I took this picture two weeks ago behind the restoration facility. Note the RN - 682568.

On%20Saturday,%20the%20M3%20White%20scout%20car%20wasnt%20there%20anymore.%20However,%20I%20took%20this%20picture%20of%20an%20M3%20White%20scout%20car%20in%20the%20storage%20lot...%20Note%20the%20RN,%20its%20the%20same?

But the "other" M3 White is clearly gone... At first I wondered if they both had the same painted on RN, but notice the two smudges above "USA" above the RN - they're exactly the same as much as I can tell... So I can only assume they changed their minds & brought the other one in for refurb <shrug>

Neil
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 10:24 am
Post subject: Re: Latest from APG (much better weather this time) *PIC*

- Hellfish6
Are the Somua and KV going back on an outdoor display or moving indoors/under cover?


I've been told that the KV-1 will go back to the same position it was at behind the musuem. I specifically asked Ed Heasley about it because it used to be a key stop on my tours. I can check on the Souma but would assume it will go back where it was.

I've been told that they are out of covered storage. Some space that they were going to expand into has been taken over for current training. So almost everything they complete will go back outside. There is one row of vehicles in the storage yard that is 'shoeless' the vehicles are all done but they don't have any tracks for them. The Ontos and the M4A1 Calliape are both in that area along with other vehicles

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