±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 598
Total: 598
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Home
02: Community Forums
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: News
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Statistics
10: News
11: Community Forums
12: Photo Gallery
13: Community Forums
14: Home
15: Community Forums
16: Downloads
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Photo Gallery
21: Community Forums
22: Downloads
23: Community Forums
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: CPGlang
27: Statistics
28: Photo Gallery
29: Community Forums
30: CPGlang
31: Member Screenshots
32: Home
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: Your Account
38: Community Forums
39: Community Forums
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Home
44: Home
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Home
49: Downloads
50: Photo Gallery
51: Photo Gallery
52: Home
53: Downloads
54: Community Forums
55: Home
56: Community Forums
57: News
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: CPGlang
61: Community Forums
62: Photo Gallery
63: Community Forums
64: Home
65: Home
66: Community Forums
67: Photo Gallery
68: Downloads
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: Home
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Home
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Photo Gallery
78: Community Forums
79: Community Forums
80: Photo Gallery
81: Community Forums
82: Downloads
83: Community Forums
84: Community Forums
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: Home
88: Downloads
89: Photo Gallery
90: Home
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Home
95: Community Forums
96: Your Account
97: Photo Gallery
98: News Archive
99: Your Account
100: Tell a Friend
101: Photo Gallery
102: Downloads
103: Downloads
104: Community Forums
105: Your Account
106: Photo Gallery
107: Community Forums
108: Photo Gallery
109: Community Forums
110: Member Screenshots
111: Community Forums
112: Community Forums
113: Photo Gallery
114: Photo Gallery
115: Community Forums
116: Photo Gallery
117: CPGlang
118: Home
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: Community Forums
123: Home
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: Home
127: Home
128: Community Forums
129: Home
130: Community Forums
131: Community Forums
132: Home
133: Home
134: Community Forums
135: Community Forums
136: Community Forums
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Community Forums
140: Photo Gallery
141: Member Screenshots
142: Community Forums
143: Community Forums
144: Community Forums
145: Photo Gallery
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Downloads
149: Community Forums
150: Photo Gallery
151: Community Forums
152: Photo Gallery
153: Photo Gallery
154: CPGlang
155: Community Forums
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Home
159: Community Forums
160: Home
161: Downloads
162: Photo Gallery
163: Community Forums
164: Photo Gallery
165: Community Forums
166: Home
167: Community Forums
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: Home
171: Home
172: Member Screenshots
173: Home
174: Community Forums
175: Downloads
176: Community Forums
177: Community Forums
178: Community Forums
179: Community Forums
180: Photo Gallery
181: Photo Gallery
182: Community Forums
183: Photo Gallery
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: Community Forums
188: Home
189: Photo Gallery
190: Home
191: Photo Gallery
192: Community Forums
193: Community Forums
194: Home
195: Photo Gallery
196: Community Forums
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: Home
200: Home
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: Home
204: Community Forums
205: Home
206: Downloads
207: Home
208: Your Account
209: Community Forums
210: Photo Gallery
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: Community Forums
215: Community Forums
216: CPGlang
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: Community Forums
220: Community Forums
221: Community Forums
222: Community Forums
223: Community Forums
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Home
227: Photo Gallery
228: Downloads
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: Community Forums
232: Downloads
233: Photo Gallery
234: Community Forums
235: Community Forums
236: Member Screenshots
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: Photo Gallery
240: Community Forums
241: Photo Gallery
242: Community Forums
243: Photo Gallery
244: Community Forums
245: Community Forums
246: Photo Gallery
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: Community Forums
251: Community Forums
252: Community Forums
253: Community Forums
254: Community Forums
255: Photo Gallery
256: News Archive
257: Home
258: Community Forums
259: Home
260: Community Forums
261: Photo Gallery
262: Community Forums
263: Photo Gallery
264: Photo Gallery
265: Community Forums
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: Community Forums
269: Community Forums
270: Photo Gallery
271: Community Forums
272: Community Forums
273: Photo Gallery
274: Community Forums
275: Community Forums
276: CPGlang
277: Community Forums
278: Photo Gallery
279: Your Account
280: Community Forums
281: Community Forums
282: Community Forums
283: Community Forums
284: Member Screenshots
285: Photo Gallery
286: Community Forums
287: Community Forums
288: Home
289: Member Screenshots
290: Community Forums
291: Your Account
292: Community Forums
293: Community Forums
294: Community Forums
295: Community Forums
296: Photo Gallery
297: Photo Gallery
298: Community Forums
299: Community Forums
300: Downloads
301: Community Forums
302: Photo Gallery
303: Community Forums
304: Community Forums
305: Photo Gallery
306: Community Forums
307: Community Forums
308: Photo Gallery
309: Photo Gallery
310: Community Forums
311: Photo Gallery
312: Photo Gallery
313: Community Forums
314: Community Forums
315: Community Forums
316: Community Forums
317: Photo Gallery
318: Community Forums
319: Community Forums
320: Community Forums
321: Community Forums
322: Community Forums
323: Photo Gallery
324: Photo Gallery
325: Community Forums
326: Community Forums
327: Community Forums
328: Community Forums
329: Community Forums
330: Community Forums
331: Community Forums
332: Community Forums
333: Community Forums
334: Home
335: Photo Gallery
336: Your Account
337: Community Forums
338: Home
339: Home
340: Community Forums
341: Community Forums
342: Home
343: Community Forums
344: Community Forums
345: Community Forums
346: Community Forums
347: Photo Gallery
348: Community Forums
349: Home
350: Community Forums
351: Your Account
352: Community Forums
353: Community Forums
354: Downloads
355: Statistics
356: Home
357: Downloads
358: Community Forums
359: Photo Gallery
360: Community Forums
361: Photo Gallery
362: Community Forums
363: Home
364: Photo Gallery
365: Community Forums
366: Community Forums
367: Community Forums
368: Community Forums
369: Community Forums
370: Your Account
371: Community Forums
372: Downloads
373: Community Forums
374: Home
375: Photo Gallery
376: Community Forums
377: Community Forums
378: Downloads
379: Photo Gallery
380: Community Forums
381: Your Account
382: Downloads
383: Downloads
384: Community Forums
385: Photo Gallery
386: Community Forums
387: Community Forums
388: Community Forums
389: Photo Gallery
390: Photo Gallery
391: Community Forums
392: Home
393: Photo Gallery
394: Community Forums
395: Home
396: Community Forums
397: Photo Gallery
398: Community Forums
399: Photo Gallery
400: Statistics
401: Community Forums
402: Community Forums
403: Community Forums
404: Member Screenshots
405: News Archive
406: Community Forums
407: Community Forums
408: Community Forums
409: Photo Gallery
410: Community Forums
411: Community Forums
412: Community Forums
413: Community Forums
414: Community Forums
415: Member Screenshots
416: Community Forums
417: Photo Gallery
418: Community Forums
419: News Archive
420: Photo Gallery
421: Community Forums
422: Home
423: Community Forums
424: Home
425: Photo Gallery
426: Home
427: Community Forums
428: Home
429: Community Forums
430: Photo Gallery
431: Photo Gallery
432: Community Forums
433: Photo Gallery
434: Home
435: Community Forums
436: Community Forums
437: Community Forums
438: Home
439: Photo Gallery
440: Photo Gallery
441: Community Forums
442: Community Forums
443: Community Forums
444: Community Forums
445: CPGlang
446: Community Forums
447: Home
448: Photo Gallery
449: Community Forums
450: Photo Gallery
451: Community Forums
452: Community Forums
453: Community Forums
454: Community Forums
455: Community Forums
456: Community Forums
457: Community Forums
458: Photo Gallery
459: Home
460: Community Forums
461: Community Forums
462: Community Forums
463: Community Forums
464: Photo Gallery
465: Photo Gallery
466: Photo Gallery
467: Community Forums
468: Your Account
469: Community Forums
470: Community Forums
471: Community Forums
472: Community Forums
473: Member Screenshots
474: Home
475: Community Forums
476: Community Forums
477: News Archive
478: Member Screenshots
479: Photo Gallery
480: Community Forums
481: Community Forums
482: Community Forums
483: Home
484: Home
485: Home
486: Home
487: Home
488: Community Forums
489: Home
490: Community Forums
491: Community Forums
492: Photo Gallery
493: Community Forums
494: Community Forums
495: Community Forums
496: Community Forums
497: Community Forums
498: Community Forums
499: Photo Gallery
500: Your Account
501: Your Account
502: Community Forums
503: CPGlang
504: Home
505: Community Forums
506: Community Forums
507: Community Forums
508: Community Forums
509: Member Screenshots
510: Community Forums
511: Member Screenshots
512: Community Forums
513: Community Forums
514: Downloads
515: Member Screenshots
516: Community Forums
517: Community Forums
518: Community Forums
519: Community Forums
520: Photo Gallery
521: Community Forums
522: Community Forums
523: Photo Gallery
524: Photo Gallery
525: Your Account
526: Community Forums
527: Member Screenshots
528: Community Forums
529: Community Forums
530: Community Forums
531: Community Forums
532: Community Forums
533: Photo Gallery
534: Community Forums
535: Community Forums
536: Community Forums
537: Home
538: Community Forums
539: Photo Gallery
540: Community Forums
541: Photo Gallery
542: Community Forums
543: Community Forums
544: Community Forums
545: Community Forums
546: Community Forums
547: Home
548: Community Forums
549: Community Forums
550: Community Forums
551: Community Forums
552: Photo Gallery
553: Photo Gallery
554: Community Forums
555: Downloads
556: Community Forums
557: Community Forums
558: Home
559: Community Forums
560: Community Forums
561: Community Forums
562: Community Forums
563: Home
564: Community Forums
565: Community Forums
566: Community Forums
567: Community Forums
568: Community Forums
569: Community Forums
570: Community Forums
571: Community Forums
572: Community Forums
573: Community Forums
574: Community Forums
575: Community Forums
576: Home
577: Community Forums
578: Home
579: Community Forums
580: Community Forums
581: Home
582: Photo Gallery
583: Home
584: Home
585: Community Forums
586: Community Forums
587: Downloads
588: Community Forums
589: Community Forums
590: Photo Gallery
591: Photo Gallery
592: Community Forums
593: Community Forums
594: Photo Gallery
595: Community Forums
596: Community Forums
597: Community Forums
598: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Ft Hood III Corp M4A3 w/ T66 track...
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:19 am
Post subject: Ft Hood III Corp M4A3 w/ T66 track...

I went to the III Corp HQ's parade field today and shot some pics of this Sherman there. This makes three M4's with the T66 metal track here at Ft Hood. Most of the numbers are readable in the pictures, but the rear tow lugs had 61587 stamped into them. The front top hull had 264, 1062958, CP8950, stamped into it. I believe this to be a Chrysler built Sherman due to the guidance of Joe DeMarco and where to find certain markings, such as the B3229 stamped into the side edge of the hull armor. As more information becomes known, I will keep you posted. I will soon post an information sheet of all the known Shermans here at Ft Hood once I get all the data compiled.

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 1:06 am
Post subject: Re: Ft Hood III Corp M4A3 w/ T66 track...

Here is what I have on this particular Sherman per Joe DeMarco. This is a Chrysler built M4A3 (76)HVSS, built in January 1945. Corresponding reg number would have been 30114609. This would have been about the 3242 built tank (ballpark number).
The reg number stamped into the lower hull (30114359), below the white star, was the first time Joe had seen one in this location. He assumes it came from another Sherman. That Shermans serial number would have been 61337.
The stamped number above the pistol port on the turret (18041090) tells us the turret was cast by Continental Steel (H in a C). 1804 is the heat treat number of the turret while 1090 should be the turrets serial number.
Joe explains all the other markings but I'll save those for the museum staff. Joe makes me look pretty darn smart, but I have to give him all the credit. But at the same time, I'm learning and am putting together my own guide on research of Shermans. Who knows, I may become the next "Joe DeMarco" for the next generation of Sherman enthusists. I still have a long way to go though!

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
binder001
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 363

PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 2:52 am
Post subject: Re: Ft Hood III Corp M4A3 w/ T66 track...

The turret top detail is interesting. When they filled the smoke mortar port, they sure did a sloppy job. Some of them were done so neatly that you can hardly tell that it was there.
Back to top
View user's profile
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 2:56 am
Post subject: Re: Ft Hood III Corp M4A3 w/ T66 track...

Is that the area right above the mantlet? What exactly is a smoke Mortar port?

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
toadmanstankpictures
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 704

PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 3:47 am
Post subject: Re: Ft Hood III Corp M4A3 w/ T66 track...

- SFC_Jeff_Button
Is that the area right above the mantlet? What exactly is a smoke Mortar port?


Starting in mid to late 1943, Shermans were produced with a British designed, two inch smoke mortar in the turret. It was mounted in the left side of the turret and protruded through an opening in the roof. Post war, they were removed and the openings were filled in.


_________________
Chris "toadman" Hughes
www.toadmanstankpictures.com
www.cafepress.com/toad...ksandstuff
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 11:54 am
Post subject: Re: Ft Hood III Corp M4A3 w/ T66 track...

This will sound stupid, but to me, a Mortar fires a projectile. Am I to understand that this was an early smoke devise or merely an exit tube for smoke and gases to escape the inside when "buttoned-up"?

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 12:12 pm
Post subject: Re: Ft Hood III Corp M4A3 w/ T66 track...

Jeff, I believe the mortar launched smoke grenades.

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 5:33 pm
Post subject: Re: Ft Hood III Corp M4A3 w/ T66 track...

Hi Jeff! Hi Folks!

Here are two photos cropped from Hunnicutt's Sherman book. Top one is from page 263 and bottom one is from page 152
In the data sheets, Hunnicutt calls it: "2 inch Mortar M3 (smoke) fixed in turret"





This is Jeff's photo of the M-4 105 How tank. That big hole in the turret roof to the right of and down in front of the loader's periscope is the openning for the 2 inch smoke mortar.


Spot Report!
Sgt, Scouts out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 5:53 pm
Post subject: Re: Ft Hood III Corp M4A3 w/ T66 track...

Perhaps a dumb question, but wouldnt that let shrapnel, even the odd MG round perhaps in? A really audacious infantryman might try to drop a grenade in...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 6:11 pm
Post subject: Re: Ft Hood III Corp M4A3 w/ T66 track...

Hi Neil! Hi Folks!

- Neil_Baumgardner

Perhaps a dumb question, but wouldnt that let shrapnel, even the odd MG round perhaps in? A really audacious infantryman might try to drop a grenade in...
Neil


Shrapnel - Yes, but back when the smoke mortar was added, air burst artillery shells had not been fielded yet. Look at that cover for the openning for the loader's periscope, it does more to keep out rain that it does to keep out shrapnel.

The odd MG round - Possibly, but not very likely. I would think that a round going in the opennings for the direct sights and the co-ax machine gun holes would have a better chance.

The audacious infantryman - that is why tanks DON'T work alone.
If they do, then that audacious infantryman is going to get them.

My 2 cents.
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
clausb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 146

PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 6:23 pm
Post subject: Re: Ft Hood III Corp M4A3 w/ T66 track...

The Brits called it the "2-inch Bombthrower" and were still mounting it in Centurions in the 1950ies. The Germans came up with something similar (perhaps from British inspiration?), the Nahverteidigungswaffe, mounted in the roof of most German tanks from 1944 onwards.

The Germans tried smoke grenade dischargers mounted on the side of the turret, but they tended to go off when hit by enemy fire, smoke getting sucked into the tank creating a miserably enviroment form the crew. They were also impossible to reload from the inside.
The Brits also used such dischargers mounted on the side of the turret early in the war (inspiring the Germans?), then they apperently went out of fashion in favour of the 2-inch Bombthrower only to be re-introduced on British tanks after the war, early Centurions having both smoke devices.

Not really sure what the Americans did? AFAIK they didn't use the exterior smoke grenade dischargers in WWII and while they did adopt the British 2-inch weapon, they apparently got rid of it soon after the war. What did they use before and until they began to use the exterior smoke grenade dischargers long after WWII (1960ies?)?

Niel, the hole is only about 2", so a handgrenade wouldn't fit, I think. Also, whatever went into the hole would be stopped by the weapon mounted there, so it seems highly unlikely that anything entering the hole would actually make it into the turret proper.

Claus B
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:08 pm
Post subject: Re: Ft Hood III Corp M4A3 w/ T66 track...

Hi Claus! Hi Folks!

- clausb

Not really sure what the Americans did? AFAIK they didn't use the exterior smoke grenade dischargers in WWII and while they did adopt the British 2-inch weapon, they apparently got rid of it soon after the war. What did they use before and until they began to use the exterior smoke grenade dischargers long after WWII (1960ies?)?


1. Tank Battalion 4.2 inch Mortar platoon of four tubes.
2. Any available division artillery support.
3. Smoke pots inplaced by Smoke Engineers units or Battalion Scouts. I did that during a couple of FTXs in Germany.

Spot Report!
Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
binder001
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 363

PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:08 pm
Post subject: Re: Ft Hood III Corp M4A3 w/ T66 track...

I think the US tankers relied more on smoke ammo from the 75 or 76mm guns than the 2" smoke mortar. One source reported that when the smoke mortar was used the Germans tended to fire into the smoke and the infantry around the tank didn't appreciate that one bit! I'm not sure how effective the mortar was at creating an effective screen, maybe the US crews weren't using it as designed?

The US tank battalion organized under the 1943 TO&Es also gave the battalion commander an additional asset - the battalion mortar platoon. There were three M4/M4A1 (later M21) halftrack 81mm mortar carriers authorized to each battalion and the FM mentions that the primary mission was to fire smoke rounds for screeening.

I have a xerox of an Ordnance Techical Bulletin dated right after VE day that mentions that the 2" smoke mortar was considered obsolete. The weapons and ammo were to be discarded. The mounts and ammo boxes were to be removed from the tanks (M4-series, M24, etc.). The holes in the turret were to be filled by either a) welding in a plug cut to fit, or b) be filled by welding. Some depots did it so cleanly that one can't tell there was ever a hole, others did "good enough".

The smoke mortars ports were seen on the later 75mm turrets (starting in 1943), all the 105mm turrets, and all (?) of the 76mm turrets. Some castings had a small lip around the opening.

With all this talk of THOUSANDS of baby mortars for each US tank, plus the battalions 81mm mortars, I can almost hear Jeff Button drooling with excitement!

Gary
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum