±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: nbrich1
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6596

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 103
Total: 103
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Community Forums
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: Photo Gallery
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Photo Gallery
09: Community Forums
10: Home
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: Photo Gallery
14: Community Forums
15: Photo Gallery
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Photo Gallery
20: Community Forums
21: Community Forums
22: Photo Gallery
23: Photo Gallery
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: Home
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Home
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Community Forums
40: Photo Gallery
41: Photo Gallery
42: Community Forums
43: Photo Gallery
44: Photo Gallery
45: Search
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Community Forums
49: Photo Gallery
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Photo Gallery
53: Your Account
54: Statistics
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: Photo Gallery
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: CPGlang
61: Community Forums
62: Community Forums
63: Community Forums
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: Community Forums
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: Community Forums
72: Photo Gallery
73: Community Forums
74: Photo Gallery
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Photo Gallery
78: Community Forums
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Community Forums
84: Photo Gallery
85: News
86: Community Forums
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Community Forums
95: Community Forums
96: Photo Gallery
97: Photo Gallery
98: Community Forums
99: Downloads
100: Community Forums
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
About one of those wheelie-bin-based pretend tanks...
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 1434
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 12:00 pm
Post subject: About one of those wheelie-bin-based pretend tanks...

www4.army.mil/ocpa/rea...d_key=9467

Cool

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 8:22 pm
Post subject: Re: About one of those wheelie-bin-based pretend tanks...

Hi Folks!

"Wheelie-bin-based pretend tanks..." Shocked

It's NOT a tank Evil or Very Mad , it's NOT a tank Evil or Very Mad , it's NOT a tank. Evil or Very Mad

It's an UPGRADE from a recoilless rifle mounted on a jeep. Razz

For all you tankers out there, this old scout would suggest that you all climb down off your real tanks, set down in a jeep and think about it for a few minutes. Or if you will, take off your tanker's boots and put on a pair of infantry walking boots.

Styrker is an upgrade for light infantrymen, not a down grade from main battle tanks. Not counting the Canadian Military in which case the current plan, if not changed, will result in the MGS being a down grade from the Leo I C2 MBT. Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad

I spent most of my career as a scout riding on M-114s (7-8 tons), M-113s (11-12 tons) and the M-151 4x4 MUTT with just a M-60 machine gun backed up by a pair of M-40 106mm RRs.

From an infantryman's point of veiw, the Stryker MGS is a lot better than a jeep or even an uparmored Hummer.
Sgt, Scouts out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 9:10 pm
Post subject: Re: About one of those wheelie-bin-based pretend tanks...

It was my understanding that the gun system on the MGS Stryker was the same as an M1 tank, am I wrong? I saw one firing on the move last night on the Military Channel and it looked quite impressive!

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
Hellfish6
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2006
Posts: 151
Location: Orlando
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:06 pm
Post subject: Re: About one of those wheelie-bin-based pretend tanks...

Its an M68 105mm gun. So yes, same gun on the original M1, but not the M1A1. Kind of misleading.

And Roy is exactly right. It's not a tank, it's not a replacement for a tank. It's an infantry support weapon. Better than a couple guys carrying recoilless rifles or something similar.
Back to top
View user's profile
Sabot
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 380
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 4:18 am
Post subject: Re: About one of those wheelie-bin-based pretend tanks...

I agree, the Strykers are not replacing the tanks/heavy mech, they are replacing the light infantry. The Army has realized that we need more guys with rifles than the tank/mech team had.

They realized after Somalia that the guys with rifles (no matter how elite) were too vulnerable with no organic armored transports.

So they figured, let's put guys in armored cars. We know it won't stand up to a tank, but it's better than an armored HMMWV. And if we need to face tanks, we still have our tanks to send in first.

_________________
RobG
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 4:43 am
Post subject: Re: About one of those wheelie-bin-based pretend tanks...

Hi Jeff! Hi Folks!

- SFC_Jeff_Button

It was my understanding that the gun system on the MGS Stryker was the same as an M1 tank, am I wrong? I saw one firing on the move last night on the Military Channel and it looked quite impressive!


That is part of the problem with the MGS. People see a 105mm cannon, the standard NATO tank killer for many years, carried on most NATO MBTs and they get a mine set that the MGS is sometype of new tank. While that cannon can kill a lot of the current tanks (notice, I didn't say MBT) that are on the plant, it would have trouble with many of the state of the art heavy weight MBTs.

The Stryker BCTs have been put together with a lot of TOW systems and AT4s as their PRIMARY MBT killers. The last system they would call forward to kill MBTs with would be the MGS. But like those TOWs and AT4s, great care must be used because the MGS, like the TOW carriers and the infantry with their AT4s are NOT Main Battle Tanks.

As SABOT said, The Stryker MGS is an ARMORED CAR. People need to call them Armored Cars and then maybe folks will STOP THINKING of them as some type of new tank.

In the case of the Canadian Military's plans to replace their Leo 1 C2s with MGS, if that goes through, those troopers are going to have to be very smart in how they deploy those vehicles. Just like an infantryman in a jeep with a recoilless rifle.

Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
JeffStringer
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 632

PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 4:49 am
Post subject: Re: About one of those wheelie-bin-based pretend tanks...

He, he! I remember watching the Military Channels 'Anatomy of a Stryker' and they covered the version with the M1's original 105mm gun and I thought: WOW! Imagine if you were the enemy and saw THAT speeding towards ya"! Laughing That had to be the most menacing looking non-tank I had ever seen!
Back to top
View user's profile
BryanWilson
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:01 am
Post subject: Re: About one of those wheelie-bin-based pretend tanks...

Thanks for the link.

I just finished reading Stryker Combat Vehicles by Gordan Rottman (part of Osprey's New Vanguard series) & IMO, he gives a good, balanced account of the Stryker. What it is & what it isn't, what it can & cannot do & what it was designed for. I was rather surprised to read about the short development to deployment time for the Stryker. If you're looking for a good general history of the Stryker, I would recommend this book. Plus it's chock full of photos & drawing that are a hallmark of the NV series.

As an aside, it's refreshing to read a forum discussion on the Stryker that isn't full of bluster & BS that one too often sees on other "AFV enthusiast" sites.
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 3941
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:17 am
Post subject: Re: About one of those wheelie-bin-based pretend tanks...

I picked that one up to, but hate all the CGI they used for the pictures. In many cases they used CGI (including for the cover) when there are plenty of actual photos they could have used...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
BryanWilson
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 8:13 am
Post subject: Re: About one of those wheelie-bin-based pretend tanks...

- Neil_Baumgardner
I picked that one up to, but hate all the CGI they used for the pictures. In many cases they used CGI (including for the cover) when there are plenty of actual photos they could have used...

Neil


Yea, I agree. They just resently started using those "CGI drawings" & I wish they would quit doing it. They just don't look right. I may write Osprey's customer service & express my opinion. Neutral
Back to top
View user's profile
Maple_Leaf_Eh
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 517

PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:09 pm
Post subject: Re: About one of those wheelie-bin-based pretend tanks...

For what it is worth, the LAV III, Bison and Coyote family are doing heroic service in southern Afghanistan. The 25mm is the heaviest gun in the section (not counting M72 LAW and 40mm M203's). On three-round burst it is very controllable, and effective at piercing walls. The mobility is not equivalent to a tank, and nobody is trying to use it that way. But for a HEAVY APC it is doing quite well.

The bad guys have hit a number of convoys with their heaviest weapons, but as far as the open source reporting goes, they haven't knocked out any LAVs. There are some photos of a crippled LAV that was destroyed by 500 lb bombs on purpose, but I think it was too badly stuck to be recovered.

The Canadian MGS has not been in the news much. There have been stories about a halt to the Leo C2 disposal and some reporters mused about putting those tanks in AF, but this was flatly denied by the spokesmen.
Back to top
View user's profile
A2_Prius
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 26, 2006
Posts: 112

PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:49 am
Post subject: That wheelie-bin-based pretend tank

I think there'd be less confusion regarding this Stryker variant's mission if it had been called the Infantry Support Gun System, instead of MGS.

On a related thought, maybe its time to start a thread on the Abrams's successor, the XM? Legacy . . .
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 22, 2006
Posts: 2516
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 6:36 am
Post subject: Re: That wheelie-bin-based pretend tank

- A2_Prius

On a related thought, maybe its time to start a thread on the Abrams's successor, the XM? Legacy . . .


I don't think we will see an Abrams successor for a long time.
But for the sake of discussion What will it's name be? Given that the last few tanks got their name from 'the leading practitioner of Armored Warfare from the previous generation' (my description of the name class containing Patton & Abrams) would the next one be

the Schwartscopf? ( I know I probably mis-spelled it, which would be an ongoing problem.) On the basis of the campaign in Desert Storm he is probably as deserving as anyone.

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Burik
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 04, 2006
Posts: 119

PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:40 pm
Post subject: Re: About one of those wheelie-bin-based pretend tanks...

- Neil_Baumgardner
I picked that one up to, but hate all the CGI they used for the pictures. In many cases they used CGI (including for the cover) when there are plenty of actual photos they could have used...

Neil


Hi Guys:

Ineresting thread. Osprey woud not be using photos for the "plates" in the middle of the book. That is always reserved for artwork. Nowadays I suppose it is much easier to use the computer to do the art part.

What I am disappointed about in the book is that it has too much of the pre-production Stryker illustrated. The driver's thermal imaging vision enhancer camera is constantly shown in front of the driver. It was relocated to the upper center of the hull. The few Iraqi deployed photos show this. Also, the two cylinders behind the driver's hatch (I think at least one is for the NBC system) were changed in production models and look quite different now. I suppose the author and illustrator had to rely on information available at the time and this is the problem with writing on a new vehicle, but if that is the case then this book took quite awhile to publish since these changes have been in place for at least three years.

Thus, guys like me who are modelers need to be wary of these photos for reference as it relates to production vehicles.

As far as the MGS goes it seems like a good idea. I just hope they got all those pre-production quirks worked out.

Bob
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum