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M36B1 Tank Destroyer at Ft Hood...
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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SFC_Jeff_Button
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:00 pm
Post subject: M36B1 Tank Destroyer at Ft Hood...

Here's the M36B1 that's at the 4th ID Museum. Judging by the welded in fill on the front of the hull, I'd say it's a Fisher build. Serial number on rear tow lugs was 772, which matches the hull stamping of S772. Also on the hull by the "comb" was the stamping 14953. You can clearly see the USA number but whether it's acurate is questionable. I thought that possibly this vehicle had been on a range as a target at one time, due to the hole in the fender, and some scaring on its sides. I contacted Joe DeMarco with this and am awaiting further information on this tank.

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JeffStringer
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 4:00 am
Post subject: Re: M36B1 Tank Destroyer at Ft Hood...

Thanks Jeff for the close ups on this one! Eventually I'm going to scratch build a turret for my 1/16th project.


Jeff
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SFC_Jeff_Button
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 6:03 am
Post subject: Re: M36B1 Tank Destroyer at Ft Hood...

Jeff Stringer, these may help in your model project. Shots of the top turret, front and rear as well as the top hull casting and a sode shot of the front glacis armor. There appears to be a wood board covering the turret top with a tarp over it. I don't know much about these tanks, but was the turret an open top?

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SHAWN
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 7:03 am
Post subject: Re: M36B1 Tank Destroyer at Ft Hood...

the turret had an open top just like the M10, M36.
(the army though compensated this by equipping TD crews with helmets that were twice as thick, very thoughtful on their part.)
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 7:17 am
Post subject: Re: M36B1 Tank Destroyer at Ft Hood...

I never heard about TD crews getting thicker helmets. I would be interested in the source of that info. (I would think that would make the helmet awfully heavy) I know they created a 'roof' assembly that could be mounted on brakets above the turret to provide some overhead cover. I'm not sure when these were introduced.

Also since the comb is mounted on the differential it is possible that the number on that actually was for another vehicle. The rear tow lugs when stamped are pretty definitive.

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JeffStringer
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 10:08 am
Post subject: Re: M36B1 Tank Destroyer at Ft Hood...

GREAT! Thanks Jeff!
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SFC_Jeff_Button
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 5:06 pm
Post subject: Re: M36B1 Tank Destroyer at Ft Hood...

You're welcome, glad to help. I sent Joe DeMarco the information (serial number) from this tank and here is what he had to tell me about it;

"Hi Jeff

>Judging by the welded in fill on the front of the hull, I'd say it's a
>Fisher build.

Yes, Fisher made M36B1s by pulling new M4A3 hulls off their assenbly lines.

>Serial number on rear tow lugs was 772, which matches the hull stamping of
>S772.

Yeah, that's the serial number George Pearce reported as well, so thanks for
the definite confirmation!
Fisher only made 187 M36B1s & the serial numbers ran from 601 thru 787.
That one was one of the last ones made, Dec, 1944.

>You can clearly see the USA number but whether it's acurate is
>questionable.

That number is bogus.
The corresponding Reg. Number would have been USA 40191071.
That might be stamped somewhere on there.
Here's a shot of the stamping on the right front side of a regular M36 at
the Huntsville Vets Museum.
This is the same thing as what you've found on some of the Shermans;
the location is just different.
A guy in England has one of the first M36s made, & he told me he
found the reg. number on the right front & on the engine deck as well.

>This vehicle is pretty rare so I'm told

Yep, I think there might be only 4 surviving examples. Yours, & one
in private hands in Pa, which both came from former Yugoslavia,
& one in Zagen, Poland, & another that I'm told is going to be put
on display at Waterrvliet Arsenal. Those were recovered from Iraq.
I would assume they captured them from the Iranians, who received them from
the US in the 1950s as MDAP.

>I thought that possibly this vehicle had been on a range as a target at one
>time, due to the hole in the fender, and some scaring on its sides

You never know, that might be combat damage received in Yugoslavia.
A good number of the M36B1s served with US Troops in the ETO
during WW II. The were highly desired because of the 90mm gun.
AFAIK, they were shipped back to the US after, & rebuilt, with many
being sent along with M36s to allied countries as military assistance
in the 1950s.

You might be able to see a number with a B prefix on the left front side.
A friend is restoring S/N 690 to running condition.
That one has B88 stamped on the side. The stamping on the left front side
certainly appears to be another recog feature of Fisher.

I think the Polish guys who recovered one from Iraq thought they had
found the vehicle serial number when they posted a photo of the E8020 info.
You can see it was cast by Symington Gould like yours, & the serial number
of the piece is D1923 while yours is D2127.

Anyway, it's good that was saved from the scrapman & has a proud home at Ft.
Hood - the former Tank Destroyer Center.


Joe"

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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 5:26 pm
Post subject: Re: M36B1 Tank Destroyer at Ft Hood...

Hmm... The Patton Museum acquired one from the former Yugoslavia in 2000 (according to an Armor magazine article) - I wonder if this is that one, although it supposedly had a T-55 engine. Jeff does this description seem to match at all?:

“Hit by a large caliber HEAT round that passed through the upper section of the transmission housing, sliced through the cabling on the radio, and impacted on the hull side wall. The entry hole had been welded over with a patch. The tank destroyer's original gasoline engine had been removed and replaced with a Soviet T-55 power plant because of the lack of spare parts."

I could be wrong, but that doesnt look like a modified engine deck, unless the Patton Museum restored it back to its original configuration somehow...

Neil
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 5:39 pm
Post subject: Re: M36B1 Tank Destroyer at Ft Hood...

I think the replacement of the original engine with a Soviet Diesel was fairly common in Yugoslavia. The M36 now at the Hubbard Museum had also been converted like that.

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Dontos
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 5:51 pm
Post subject: Re: M36B1 Tank Destroyer at Ft Hood...

- Neil_Baumgardner
Hmm... The Patton Museum acquired one from the former Yugoslavia in 2000 (according to an Armor magazine article) - I wonder if this is that one, although it supposedly had a T-55 engine. Jeff does this description seem to match at all?:

“Hit by a large caliber HEAT round that passed through the upper section of the transmission housing, sliced through the cabling on the radio, and impacted on the hull side wall. The entry hole had been welded over with a patch. The tank destroyer's original gasoline engine had been removed and replaced with a Soviet T-55 power plant because of the lack of spare parts."

I could be wrong, but that doesnt look like a modified engine deck, unless the Patton Museum restored it back to its original configuration somehow...

Neil


In 1999 the Vehicle you are referring to was removed from Weapon Storage site 058 in Bosnia. It was picked up by elements of the 1st Cav Div during SFOR 5.

I have the video of the exchange to include the front slope patched hole. This is the vehicle here....

Don
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 5:55 pm
Post subject: Re: M36B1 Tank Destroyer at Ft Hood...

Ah, so there is an M36B1 there as well? Okay, I was just checking since Joe DeMarco (otherwise a veritable font of Sherman info) didnt refer to it.

Neil
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SFC_Jeff_Button
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 6:08 pm
Post subject: Re: M36B1 Tank Destroyer at Ft Hood...

Do you have a serial number for the M36B1 at the Patton museum. I'm sure Joe will ask for it.

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toadmanstankpictures
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 9:05 am
Post subject: Re: M36B1 Tank Destroyer at Ft Hood...

To me, this M36B1 appears to be ex-Yugoslavian. If you look at the 4th and 5th pics in Jeff's original posting, you'll see a box extension on the lower rear hull. This is indicative of the T-55 powerpack being retrofitted into the M36B1. Jeff, when time permits, please go back and shoot a pic or two of the lower rear hull. If you see a box extension like the one on this ex-Yugo M36,

then%20we'll%20know%20its%20ex-Yugo.%20%20Suprisingly,%20it%20doesn't%20have%20the%20Yugoslavian%20headlight%20set%20up%20that%20is%20commonly%20seen%20on%20their%20M36/M36B1's,

One more thing about this M36B1, note the barrel. It has a fume extractor. That was a post-WWII thing. So, this beast has been retrofitted with a 90mm M3A1(?) gun.

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bsmart
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 10:01 am
Post subject: Re: M36B1 Tank Destroyer at Ft Hood...

I had missed that before. I should have noticed it. The Hubbard M36 has the holes in the barrel but no fume extractor. It looked strange until someone told me what it was. I at first thought it was a very neat demilling job of some kind. The Hubbard M36 has been completely restored to running condition with the 'right' engine it would be interesting to look for signs of that extension on the reaer or grind marks where the headlight modifications were removed if I get up there again soon.

The Hubbard M36 also has a patched hole in the hull ( I think it is in the right side) Almost seems like the vehicles were being used till knocked out then sold to collectors Wink

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Last edited by bsmart on Wed Sep 06, 2006 10:30 am; edited 1 time in total
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SFC_Jeff_Button
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 10:24 am
Post subject: Re: M36B1 Tank Destroyer at Ft Hood...

I'll definitely check that out and get some close ups. I'm sure the museum staff doesn't have a clue.

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