±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: TylerK93
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6591

People Online:
Members: 1
Visitors: 85
Total: 86
Who Is Where:
 Members:
01: RCAF_Wingnut > News
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Community Forums
03: Photo Gallery
04: Community Forums
05: Downloads
06: Community Forums
07: Photo Gallery
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: Community Forums
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: Photo Gallery
17: Community Forums
18: Downloads
19: Photo Gallery
20: Community Forums
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Photo Gallery
24: Photo Gallery
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: Home
28: Home
29: Photo Gallery
30: Photo Gallery
31: Photo Gallery
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Home
36: Community Forums
37: Downloads
38: Community Forums
39: Downloads
40: Photo Gallery
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Photo Gallery
44: Community Forums
45: Photo Gallery
46: Community Forums
47: Photo Gallery
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Photo Gallery
51: Photo Gallery
52: Photo Gallery
53: News
54: Community Forums
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: Community Forums
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Photo Gallery
62: Community Forums
63: Community Forums
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Home
68: Community Forums
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: Photo Gallery
72: Home
73: Photo Gallery
74: Downloads
75: Photo Gallery
76: Community Forums
77: Home
78: Home
79: Community Forums
80: Photo Gallery
81: Community Forums
82: Photo Gallery
83: Photo Gallery
84: Community Forums
85: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
sherman 105mm
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Sundrtonge
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2006
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:55 pm
Post subject: sherman 105mm

Hi,

new to the board. I was wondering if anyone here might possibly have any technical data on the sherman 105mm, specifically the gun its ammo, its HE or possible AP performance, range of the weapon useage of the weapon (i.e. direct, indirect etc) etc.

No i dont have the Hunnicutt book as of yet, a bit pricey right now for me. But as I mentioned in the previous post I think when I get a chance I will nominate it and the other Hunnicutt books (if I can get the ISBN #'s) for digital reprinting so that at least there would be a chance of them becomming available even if the quality wouldnt be a great.

thanks,
-Dave
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 22, 2006
Posts: 2516
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 6:31 pm
Post subject: Re: sherman 105mm

Welcome Aboard

The 105mm in the Sherman was ballistically compatable with thestandard M2 (later called the M101) 105mm howitzer. The ammunition consisted of the standard selectionof rounds that the Field Artillery 105mm had. It was capable of both direct and indirect fire in fact there racks on them to hold the aiming stakes required to set up the gun postion for Fire Direction Center control.

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
binder001
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 363

PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 6:56 pm
Post subject: Re: sherman 105mm

Some quick remarks on the AP performance you requested...

1) the 105mm HEAT shell could penetrate a Panther's glacis at 500 yds - based on US firing tests at Isigny, France in the summer of 1944.

2) to modify the above - the 105mm howitzer M4 used in the M4s and M4A3s with 105 mm Howitzers was basically set up as a field artillery weapon. It did not have a semi-automatic breech as most tank guns do (the semi-auto breech opens at the end of the recoil stroke and ejects the empty casing, allowing a faster reload). The original production 105mm armed medium tanks also did not have power turret traverse. These add to to a tank that might work in ambush, but watch out if you miss that first shot!
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:11 pm
Post subject: Re: sherman 105mm

Hi Dave! Hi Folks!

- Sundrtonge

Hi, new to the board.

Welcome to the group!

- Sundrtonge

I was wondering if anyone here might possibly have any technical data on the sherman 105mm, specifically the gun its ammo, its HE or possible AP performance, range of the weapon useage of the weapon (i.e. direct, indirect etc) etc.


Here is some of what you are looking for:
105mm howitzer M4 in mount M52
Traverse manuel on early vehicles, later hydraulic power added
Elevation +35 to -10 degrees
Firing rate: 8 rounds per minute
Vehicle could carry 66 rounds of 105 mm ammo.
Ammo was semifixed, variable charge except for the HEAT M67 round
M67 HEAT-T shell
M60 WP smoke shell
M84 HC BE shell (My note: some type of smoke round)
M1 HE shell
Max range:
M1 at max charge 12,205 yards
M67 8,590 yards
M60 12,150 yards
M84 12,205 yards
Armor pentration: M67 HEAT shell, 0 degrees obliquity 4.0 inches at any range.

- Sundrtonge

I think when I get a chance I will nominate it ....for digital reprinting so that at least there would be a chance of them becomming available even if the quality wouldnt be a great.


I have one book that was done by digital reprinting. "On Point" by the Association of the U.S. Army (AUSA) printed by the Naval Institute Press. AUSA was in a rush to get that book out and elected to go with digital printing because it was faster.

Many of the maps are nothing but dark blobs. Many of the photos are very dark and it is almost impossible to pick out much detail. For example, photos of individuals. You can not make out their faces. As for vehicles, you can see the outline, but details of the vehicles are dark spots. The printed word is great. But most of the photos are just wasted pages. NO, it is not a problem with the original photos and maps. After buy the book, I ran acrossed a copy on the internet of the report the book is based on. The photos and maps in the internet copy are clear and not dark reproductions.

If that is an example of the quailty of digital reprinting (another member once told us that a digital reprint of Hunnicutt's book would be a waste of money) then I would also say, don't waste you money unless you can inspect the book first to insure the photos are OK.

Spot report on the 105mm howitzer and my 2 cents on digital printing of photos.
Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
JWB2
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 186

PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 11:14 pm
Post subject: Re: sherman 105mm

When (what year) was that digital printing done? Nowadays digital printing can be extremely high quality.
Back to top
View user's profile
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 1434
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:18 am
Post subject: Re: sherman 105mm

- Roy_A_Lingle


Many of the maps are nothing but dark blobs. Many of the photos are very dark and it is almost impossible to pick out much detail. For example, photos of individuals. You can not make out their faces. As for vehicles, you can see the outline, but details of the vehicles are dark spots. The printed word is great. But most of the photos are just wasted pages. NO, it is not a problem with the original photos and maps. After buy the book, I ran acrossed a copy on the internet of the report the book is based on. The photos and maps in the internet copy are clear and not dark reproductions.


Sounds more like crappy photocopying - digital reprinting is usually very high quality stuff.

Cool

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 10:24 am
Post subject: Re: sherman 105mm

Hi JWB! Hi Folks!

- JWB2

When (what year) was that digital printing done? Nowadays digital printing can be extremely high quality.


The copy write is 2005.

Jim posted:
"Sounds more like crappy photocopying - digital reprinting is usually very high quality stuff."

I agree with the crappy part, that's what it looks like. As far as I know "On Point" is the only book I have or have seen that was digital printed. The written part is high quality. All I can say is from what little I have seen, I would not buy a digital reprinted book with out looking at it first.

My confuzed 2 cents, Confused
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
LeeW
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 61

PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 10:34 am
Post subject: Re: sherman 105mm

- binder001
Some quick remarks on the AP performance you requested...

1) the 105mm HEAT shell could penetrate a Panther's glacis at 500 yds - based on US firing tests at Isigny, France in the summer of 1944.
...!


Note that HEAT performance is almost independent of range. In the case of this round it probably improved with range. PH on the other hand .....
Back to top
View user's profile
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 1434
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 12:16 pm
Post subject: Re: sherman 105mm

- Roy_A_Lingle

Jim posted:
"Sounds more like crappy photocopying - digital reprinting is usually very high quality stuff."

I agree with the crappy part, that's what it looks like. As far as I know "On Point" is the only book I have or have seen that was digital printed. The written part is high quality. All I can say is from what little I have seen, I would not buy a digital reprinted book with out looking at it first.


Actually having said that a lot depends on the scanning - But generally the larger the scan file the better the quality.

Cool

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
Sundrtonge
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2006
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 10:53 am
Post subject: Re: sherman 105mm

Thanks for the replies, they are great! Dont get to spend too much time on the borads hence have not been here in a few.

Quick question on the HEAT performance the range doesnt matter?? - any idea on the distance that HEAT projectile might be able to be shot fromthat 105mm?


Quick note on the nominating a book for digital. I actually went and nominated the title but they sent me an email back stating I would have to contact the publisher on this title. I agree the digital printing isnt the best but I do many books with it and it is a nice alternative just to have something available at a reasonable cost Smile

thanks again!
-Dave

BTW I was just down at Aberdeen in Maryland and snapped off about 1100 pictures or so, if I get a chance ill throw a few up latter on. The curator and staff down there were awesome to our needs!
Back to top
View user's profile
Sundrtonge
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2006
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 11:00 am
Post subject: Re: sherman 105mm

oops should have read a little closer Shocked - looks like the HEAT range of

M67 8,590 yards?

_dave
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 3941
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 11:01 am
Post subject: Re: sherman 105mm

If you had mentioned it earlier, Bob Smart probably could have arranged for a behind the scenes tour at the museum...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Sundrtonge
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2006
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 11:04 am
Post subject: Re: sherman 105mm

And for the whys of this - I am desiging a simple WWII armor game for my company as I am not satisfied with what is out there now.

Bob Smart? i think I spoke to you about my Aberdeen trip through geroge Bradford? HI!

-Dave
Back to top
View user's profile
LeeW
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 61

PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 11:29 am
Post subject: Re: sherman 105mm

- Sundrtonge
...Quick question on the HEAT performance the range doesnt matter?? ...!

Actually that's only a first order approximation due to a couple of factors either not well understood or who's fix was known or considered worth while WWII HEAT rounds especially those from a cannon (as opposed to say a bazooka, rifle grenade, or panzer faust) actually probably improved with range. There are two reasons for this:
1) spinning (due to using a rifled barrel) tends to cut down on the penetration of HEAT rounds. The further the shell got from the barrel the slower the sping and the less this effect.
2) To get maximum effect from a HEAT round you want to detonate it a bit before it reaches the target (this the standoff probes on most current HEAT rounds). If the round is traveling slower when it hits this tends to give it a bit more "stand off".
Now whether the effect of either of these two was noticable between say 500 yards and 1,000 yards I don't know (and rather doubt). Certainly the PH of a HEAT round was going to go down pretty rapidly as range increased. Also there is the possibility that as long as the round penetrated the disbursing effect of the spin and higher velocity might actually enhance the behind armor effects.

For game purposes I'd probably not get into any of this....
Back to top
View user's profile
Sundrtonge
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2006
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 11:40 am
Post subject: Re: sherman 105mm

Hi Neil,

i think I did speak with Bob and it just didnt happen, I didnt raelize this until a little bit ago. Him and Geroge have been great! I was able to get a behind the scenes tour as well, though they were quite busy. I snaged up shots of the Elephant as well over at the railhead, pretty cool vehicle!

I was just doing a bit of math, if the 105 has the same performance as the artillery piece, but the elevation allowance is about half that of the artillery piece I would think it is safe to assume that the range of the 105 Sherman would be about hald for indirect fire.

-Dave
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum