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M60A1 or A3? (Was M60A0s, A1s and A3s?)
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 7:57 pm
Post subject: Re: M60A1 or A3? (Was M60A0s, A1s and A3s?)

Thanks, here's another few.

Quincy IL

Flemington%20NJ Millersville%20PA Simpson%20PA Cotulla%20TX Avis%20PA Williamsport%20PA Little%20Valley%20NY Naples%20NY Shellsville%20PA West%20Orange%20NJ Poestenkill%20NY McCook%20NE:%20Cant%20tell%20-%20another%20A0? Kinsley%20KS Augusta%20KS

Neil
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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 4:41 am
Post subject: Re: M60A1 or A3? (Was M60A0s, A1s and A3s?)

Hi everyone,
As always a good M60 discussion gets started when I'm off the net. What a great selection of M60's. Here is another ID tip to go by.

The Gunners Sight Housing for an M60A3 TTS is rounded on top and taller as opposed to the housing for an M60A1 or M60A3 Passive. IAW Army records all Passive A3's were converted to TTS by 1984 from what I remember (I don't have my references). So finding a Passive A3 should be almost impossible (Never say Never). A lot of tanks had the sight removed before being put on display. To make it harder the wind sensor mast might be removed too. Target tanks will even have the range finder blister removed with the LRF. The ID feature that remains for a TTS model is the old searchlight cable opening on the top center turret. It would have a cap welded over it. So if you see the cap, then it's an A3. But just because it doesn't have a cap does not make it an A1.
About the "Muzzel Brake" on the heater exhaust. It's actually meant to diffuse the IR signature the heater puts out, Not all A3's had them either. Most original Detroit production models were straight piped. There is an original M60A3 TTS at Praire Du Chein WI that has a straight pie still. A lot of A3's that went through a second rebuild at Anniston had this pipe installed along with the phone box removed before issue to the Gaurd.
Question for Geoff Walden, where were you with these very late model A1's? I see your 33rd Armor Crest but that could be Knox or Spearhead.
Question for Jim Web, Do you mean RISE/Passive by M60A1 RPE?? Not familiar with that description.

Joe D
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JimWeb
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 6:07 am
Post subject: Re: M60A1 or A3? (Was M60A0s, A1s and A3s?)

- Joe_D

Question for Jim Web, Do you mean RISE/Passive by M60A1 RPE?? Not familiar with that description.
Joe D


Yes - taken from the maunuals. I am aware of the different engine types they had ie...

M60A1 AOS = AVDS-1790-2A or 2D
M60A1 RISE = AVDS-1790-2C
M60A1 R/PE = AVDS-1790-20

As far as I am aware only the RISE & RPE had the top loading air cleaner...

Cool

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Sabot
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 6:59 am
Post subject: Re: M60A1 or A3? (Was M60A0s, A1s and A3s?)

Except for the one you ID'd correctly as an A0, they are all M60A3s. If you look at your last photo, see how the end of the tube juts out from the thermal shroud, giving the end a skinny appearance. If the tube is a smooth, continuous diameter all the way back to the bore evacuator, then it is an A1 (or an A3 with the shroud removed!).

There is also a strange variant of the M60/M48 family that came out it kit form by the Taiwanese company AFV Club. They make a model of a Taiwan variant of the M48/60 called the "M48H". This is an M60 series hull with an M48A5 turret, but with fire control and thermal sites of the M60A3TTS. At a glance, it could be mistaken for an M60A0, but as long as you have stateside photos and not any from the far east, we should not have ID problems. They also have an ERA armor package they use on it.

Interesting variant that adds a new twist to identification.
english.www.gov.tw/Yea...&type=prev

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JimWeb
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 7:50 am
Post subject: Re: M60A1 or A3? (Was M60A0s, A1s and A3s?)

- Sabot
They also have an ERA armor package they use on it.


Images of both types on JED...

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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 9:33 am
Post subject: Re: M60A1 or A3? (Was M60A0s, A1s and A3s?)

Didnt the Taiwanese also put M60 turrets on M48 hulls? Or am I thinking of the M18 Jackson turrets on M42 Duster hulls...

Neil
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 9:42 am
Post subject: Re: M60A1 or A3? (Was M60A0s, A1s and A3s?)

- Sabot
Except for the one you ID'd correctly as an A0, they are all M60A3s. If you look at your last photo


Sabot, thanks again for the ids. I'm beginning to find from this random sampling that A1s must be pretty rare...

And BTW, just for clarification, none of these pictures are mine... They all come from this Tanks for the Memories geocaching site...

www.geocaching.com/see...e6cedf1f33

I'm not in the habbit of photographing young children in my AFV pictures... 'Nuff said...

Neil
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JimWeb
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 11:59 am
Post subject: Re: M60A1 or A3? (Was M60A0s, A1s and A3s?)

- Neil_Baumgardner
Didnt the Taiwanese also put M60 turrets on M48 hulls? Or am I thinking of the M18 Jackson turrets on M42 Duster hulls...

Neil


Your thinking of the CM-12. M48A2 with 105mm gun, M1 computer and a number of M-60 hull components including the engine.

Jackson turrets on M42 hulls? Nearest thing I can think of was the M42 turrets on the LVTP-5 hulls (Taiwanese) M42 turrets on AMX-13 hulls (Venezuala) or the M42 turrets on the M548 hulls (Taiwanese again)

Cool

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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 3:34 pm
Post subject: Re: M60A1 or A3? (Was M60A0s, A1s and A3s?)

Sorry, I misspoke, M18 Hellcat turrets on M42 hulls. Cant find any pics of 'em just right now, but I can find several references via a simple google search.

Neil
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 4:46 pm
Post subject: Re: M60A1 or A3? (Was M60A0s, A1s and A3s?)

Next batch:

White Haven PA

Overbook%20KS%20(M60A1?) Pine%20Grove%20PA Shelton%20NE%20(M60A0?) Sutton%20NE Clay%20Center%20NE Lebanon%20PA Columbus%20NE Cadillac%20MI Allegan%20MI Spalding%20NE Grand%20Island%20NE Hastings%20NE Tuscumbia%20AL Paterson%20NJ West%20Paterson%20NJ St%20Augustine%20FL Independence%20IA Hudson%20FL Lake%20Charles%20LA Hutchinson%20MN Morrisonville%20NY Parkton%20NC Argonia%20KS Conway%20SC Greeley%20NE Chillicothe%20OH Hutchinson%20MN Marion%20IL Florala%20FL

Neil
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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 5:56 am
Post subject: Re: M60A1 or A3? (Was M60A0s, A1s and A3s?)

Hi Neil! Hi Folks!

The second photo under the Clay Center NE set of three is a M60A0. The one with the guy wearing a blue t-shirt.

Spot Report!
Sgt, Scouts out!

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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 2:09 pm
Post subject: Re: M60A1 or A3? (Was M60A0s, A1s and A3s?)

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Neil! Hi Folks!

The second photo under the Clay Center NE set of three is a M60A0. The one with the guy wearing a blue t-shirt.

Spot Report!
Sgt, Scouts out!


Roy, thanks. I hadnt noticed there were 2 different M60s in Clay Center (in 2 different locations none-the-less).

Are all the rest A3s?

Neil
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JeffStringer
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 2:47 pm
Post subject: Re: M60A1 or A3? (Was M60A0s, A1s and A3s?)

Man ... I haven't seen so many M60's before like this in my life! I'll probably have a very weird tank dream tonight. Laughing

Hey Neil, are you sure you weren't thinking of M36 Jackson turrets on M18 Hellcats, causing what was called the "Super Hellcat"?


Jeff
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 3:00 pm
Post subject: Re: M60A1 or A3? (Was M60A0s, A1s and A3s?)

Nope, Hellcat turrets on Duster chassis.



See this discussion:

www.taiwanmilitary.org...562758ab0a

Neil
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JeffStringer
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 7:48 pm
Post subject: Re: M60A1 or A3? (Was M60A0s, A1s and A3s?)

Thanks Neil. That's something you don't see everyday!


Jeff
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