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One of a kinds/only survivors, etc... - Help needed
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 12:21 am
Post subject: Re: One of a kinds/only survivors, etc... - Help needed

Hi Neil! Hi Folks!

- Neil_Baumgardner


XM-8
I'll need to check that one too, but I think there's a bunch of them actually (just not on display).

What was that SPG at the Hampton VA hospital? Was it an XM-108 or something else?


Off the top of my head, I think five XM-8s completed and standardized as M-8s. One has been upgraded with a 120mm main gun.

The Hampton VA vehcile is a T195.

This is a photo from a very old Janes' AFV book.
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:22 am
Post subject: Re: One of a kinds/only survivors, etc... - Help needed

I thought I remember hearing that the 5 XM-8s built were going to be issued to an 'interim' armor unit with the 82nd ABN. A couple weeks later was when the XM-8 at Aberdeen was drug out from 'behind the fence' and set next to the warehouse. (That was all discussed on the old board)
Does anyone know if they went through with the plan?

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clausb
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:32 am
Post subject: Re: One of a kinds/only survivors, etc... - Help needed

- Neil_Baumgardner
- Dontos
Besides the Obvious, T28 Super Heavy, here are a few possible candidates:




Sd.Kfz. 234-4, only one in the world?l


No, they have one, restored, in Munster, Germany as well (came from Bovington in 1975).

Dont know how many DDs are around in the US, but there are several in Europe.

Claus B
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:48 am
Post subject: Re: One of a kinds/only survivors, etc... - Help needed

- Neil_Baumgardner

Seven surviving M40s by my count... I think my totally arbitrary bar is 5...

M12 is definately a good one though... That cant be the only survivor right? Any overseas?

Neil


That may be the only one. It was a limited production run and almost all were immediatly deployed to Europe. Wouldn't be surprised if all there were scrapped immediately postwar

Five is as good a cutoff as any. A full (traditional) platoon, or enough so that Aberdeen, Bovington,Knox, Kubinka, and Samur each have one. I can't think of any offhand that actually meet that criteria though.

How many Tiger Is are there?

Elephant/Ferdinand Aren't there 3? (Aberdeen, Bovington, Kubinka)
JagdTiger? (Same 3?)
Brummbear?

You might ask Ed at Aberdeen for his list of rare beasts. I've seen a list he has of high priority vehicles to get run through refirb. Several were on the list because of 'only one built' or 'only known example'

The Whippet and Mark IV come to mind. Not sure about Vickers MkII. What about the Mk VI light?

What about the Japanese Type 89 or even the Chi-Ha

For other German vehicles The fluid drive Mk IV, the 'Grasshopper', Nashorn?

How many M13/40s are left?

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bsmart
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:54 am
Post subject: Re: One of a kinds/only survivors, etc... - Help needed

Claus

What about Soumas and Renault R35s? Do y'all have a bunch stashed away in France?

Which reminds me How many Char Bs are there? I remember a discussion way back when I first came on the board and thought Aberdeen had one but found out I had misremembered the Souma.

And isn't the WWI Schneider that Aberdeen 'sent home' the only one left?

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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:23 am
Post subject: Re: One of a kinds/only survivors, etc... - Help needed

- Roy_A_Lingle

The Hampton VA vehcile is a T195.



There was a bit of a disagreement between Jim & I on the identification of that vehicle. Based on Hunnicutt, my conclusion is that it is an M108 hull (the hull is like a normal M108, different from the T195) and a T195 turret.

Neil
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:30 am
Post subject: Re: One of a kinds/only survivors, etc... - Help needed

- bsmart
I thought I remember hearing that the 5 XM-8s built were going to be issued to an 'interim' armor unit with the 82nd ABN. A couple weeks later was when the XM-8 at Aberdeen was drug out from 'behind the fence' and set next to the warehouse. (That was all discussed on the old board)
Does anyone know if they went through with the plan?


I believe the M8 was sitting outside the warehouse sometime before the 82nd thing came up - which has subsequently been dead for some time now. The proposal died because it would have been extremely difficult to support five prototypes in the field.

Neil
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:07 am
Post subject: Re: One of a kinds/only survivors, etc... - Help needed

- bsmart
- Neil_Baumgardner

Seven surviving M40s by my count... I think my totally arbitrary bar is 5...

M12 is definately a good one though... That cant be the only survivor right? Any overseas?

Neil


That may be the only one. It was a limited production run and almost all were immediatly deployed to Europe. Wouldn't be surprised if all there were scrapped immediately postwar.


Okay, although I wonder if there's another 1 or so out there in Europe...


How many Tiger Is are there?


Thanks to Pierre-Olivier's Surviving Tigers file we know there are six surviving Tiger Is.

the.shadock.free.fr/Su...Tigers.pdf


Elephant/Ferdinand Aren't there 3? (Aberdeen, Bovington, Kubinka)


Just two - APG & Kubinka

www.achtungpanzer.com/pz6.htm


JagdTiger? (Same 3?)


Right three - Aberdeen, Bovington & Kubinka.

www.achtungpanzer.com/pz12.htm


Brummbear?


Four: APG, Kubinka, Munster, Saumur


You might ask Ed at Aberdeen for his list of rare beasts. I've seen a list he has of high priority vehicles to get run through refirb. Several were on the list because of 'only one built' or 'only known example'


You forget I have a copy of that list. Wink I'll have to dig it up.


The Whippet and Mark IV come to mind. Not sure about Vickers MkII. What about the Mk VI light?


Six Whippet survivors:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whippet_Mk_A

Seven surviving Mk IVs as well:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_I_tank (misidentifies the APG Mk IV as a Mk V).

Cant find good info on Mk II Mediums, or the MK VI Lights... Coldsteel has mentioned that the RAAC museum has a Mk II Medium.


What about the Japanese Type 89 or even the Chi-Ha


Thankfully there is a pdf file (somewhat out of date) on "Preserved Japanese Tanks": www.armourarchive.co.u...panese.pdf

Just three Type 89s, so thats rare enough...

24 Chi-Has out there, a lot on Pacific Islands of course... But still a good amount in museums...


For other German vehicles The fluid drive Mk IV, the 'Grasshopper', Nashorn?


Got the first two. According to Pierre-Olivier's Surviving Pz. IV Variants, there are just 2 Nashorn/Hornisses (APG & Kubinka).


How many M13/40s are left?


Eek! Italian stuff... I dont have any good sources. Bovington has one...

Neil
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JimWeb
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:17 am
Post subject: Re: One of a kinds/only survivors, etc... - Help needed

- Neil_Baumgardner
- Roy_A_Lingle

The Hampton VA vehcile is a T195.



There was a bit of a disagreement between Jim & I on the identification of that vehicle. Based on Hunnicutt, my conclusion is that it is an M108 hull (the hull is like a normal M108, different from the T195) and a T195 turret.

Neil


I arrived at the conclusion it was a T195E1 - there were four of them, all differed slightly and I suspect that was No 3 which had the turret from one of the T195 prototypes.

There are a number of small differences between that hull and an M108 one.

Cool

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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:27 am
Post subject: Re: One of a kinds/only survivors, etc... - Help needed

- bsmart
Claus

What about Soumas and Renault R35s? Do y'all have a bunch stashed away in France?


I know of at least 3 S 35s (APG, Bovington & Saumur). At least 3 R 35s as well (APG & two at Saumur). But I would suspect there's more in other museums in Europe?


Which reminds me How many Char Bs are there? I remember a discussion way back when I first came on the board and thought Aberdeen had one but found out I had misremembered the Souma.


Bovington & Saumur each have Char Bs.


And isn't the WWI Schneider that Aberdeen 'sent home' the only one left?


Yep. Only St Chamond I believe too...

Neil
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 7:44 am
Post subject: Re: One of a kinds/only survivors, etc... - Help needed

- JimWeb
- Neil_Baumgardner
- Roy_A_Lingle

The Hampton VA vehcile is a T195.
There%20was%20a%20bit%20of%20a%20disagreement%20between%20Jim%20&%20I%20on%20the%20identification%20of%20that%20vehicle.%20Based%20on%20Hunnicutt,%20my%20conclusion%20is%20that%20it%20is%20an%20M108%20hull%20(the%20hull%20is%20like%20a%20normal%20M108,%20different%20from%20the%20T195)%20and%20a%20T195%20turret. Neil
I%20arrived%20at%20the%20conclusion%20it%20was%20a%20T195E1%20-%20there%20were%20four%20of%20them,%20all%20differed%20slightly%20and%20I%20suspect%20that%20was%20No%203%20which%20had%20the%20turret%20from%20one%20of%20the%20T195%20prototypes. There%20are%20a%20number%20of%20small%20differences%20between%20that%20hull%20and%20an%20M108%20one. %208)
My%20reasoning%20was%20based%20on%20this%20picture%20on%20page%20208%20of%20Hunnicutt's%20Sheridan. Note%20how%20the%20slope%20on%20the%20upper%20front%20hull,%20starting%20from%20the%20right,%20continues%20pretty%20far%20over%20to%20the%20left%20side. Here%20is%20the%20\"Hampton\"

I dont see the same kind of slope on this one, or the grill...

Now if there were T195E1 hulls that looked more like conventional M108 hulls I would agree.

Neil
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 8:17 am
Post subject: Re: One of a kinds/only survivors, etc... - Help needed

I do see the same slope as well as hints of the little round port just above the centerline grab handle. The problem is partialy the quality of the B&W photo which doesn't make it easy to see the change in planes on the 'bulge' on the right side (as you are sitting in the driver seat) It also looks like both have the hinges for an access panel in front of the bulge. From this angle it looks like the grill on Hampton was replaced or covered with sheet metal. No headlights on hampton and the lifting eyes are a little different.

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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 8:26 am
Post subject: Re: One of a kinds/only survivors, etc... - Help needed

Okay, look at the slope this way... On the T195E1 picture, you have the grill and then the slope continues at a right angle to the left, before sloping up on a diagonal line. On the Hampton Hull, you only have the right angle as far as where the grill would be, then it starts to slope at a diagonal angle.

I'll try to mark up the pictures to describe what I am saying better...

Neil
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 8:43 am
Post subject: Re: One of a kinds/only survivors, etc... - Help needed

Okay, these pictures may help with what I am describing/seeing with regard to the "slope."



Neil
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JimWeb
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 9:59 am
Post subject: Re: One of a kinds/only survivors, etc... - Help needed

- Neil_Baumgardner
Okay, these pictures may help with what I am describing/seeing with regard to the "slope."

Oh%20look%20a%20nice%20picture%20of%20T195E1%20RD1
[/quote]

Good grief its an image of the T195E1 RD3!

and oh look its an image of T195E1 RD 4 at the bottom of this message!!!! What they don't all look exactly the same?? well strap me you'd think they would make all the development vehicles look exactly alike to avoid confusion...

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