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These are at the Argentine Army Museum in Buenos Aires,
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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armyjunk2
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:18 am
Post subject: These are at the Argentine Army Museum in Buenos Aires,

Here are some new pictures, my friend just got back from Argentine. These are at the Argentine Army Museum in Buenos Aires, a right click and save will give you more info.....The museum was closed so he only got to see what was outside, the WWII vehicles are inside. I will send him back sometime in the future.....

[


Last edited by armyjunk2 on Sun Jul 08, 2007 8:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:34 am
Post subject: Re: These are at the Argentine Army Museum in Buenos Aires,

"APOYO scoutcar" = ERC 90 Sagaie?

Neil
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the_shadock
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:59 am
Post subject: Re: These are at the Argentine Army Museum in Buenos Aires,

- Neil_Baumgardner
"APOYO scoutcar" = ERC 90 Sagaie?

Neil


There are several differences between these two vehicles..

Pierre-Olivier

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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:25 am
Post subject: Re: These are at the Argentine Army Museum in Buenos Aires,

Yeah, I thought so, but they are remarkably close. I was thinking some sort of variant? Or is this an Argentinian copy?

Neil
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the_shadock
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 12:29 pm
Post subject: Re: These are at the Argentine Army Museum in Buenos Aires,

In fact, it seems that several vehicles are close to the French one, for instance :

VAE1%20Prototype%20Argentine VAB,%20Véhicule%20de%20l'Avant%20Blindé APOYO%20scoutcar ERC-90%20Sagaie [/quote] Argentinian%20AMX-113%20(or%20AMX-13?)
AMX-13

I think that AMX-13s were produced by France and exported to Argentine (as the M-113 were ; however the wheels and tracks of the Argentinian AMX-13 are different from the French ones), the VAE may be a copy or a variant of the French VAB and the APOYO .. some quite modified variant..

Pierre-Olivier

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Dontos
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 12:59 pm
Post subject: Re: These are at the Argentine Army Museum in Buenos Aires,

- armyjunk2





This is a definite German 'Marder' knock off. Turret is different but hull is same... With that damn rear 'remote' 7.62mm MG.

It was explained to me that only good this did was block the rear entrance / exit ramp of the infantry dismounts. PanzerGrenaders tended to hate that weapon mount.

Don

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armyjunk2
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:36 pm
Post subject: Re: These are at the Argentine Army Museum in Buenos Aires,

Here is the sign that was in front of it, apparently based on the Panhard ET chassis. Someone in here can read Spanish I bet

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Hellfish6
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:07 pm
Post subject: Re: These are at the Argentine Army Museum in Buenos Aires,

- Dontos
- armyjunk2





This is a definite German 'Marder' knock off. Turret is different but hull is same... With that damn rear 'remote' 7.62mm MG.

It was explained to me that only good this did was block the rear entrance / exit ramp of the infantry dismounts. PanzerGrenaders tended to hate that weapon mount.

Don


I don't remember the name of this vehicle, but it was based off the chassis of the TAM (Tanque Argentino Mediano), which was an Argentinian built tank designed by Thyssen Henschel (IIRC) on the Marder chassis. The TAM and this APC are still in service, I'm pretty sure. Hell, I think the M5 half track in still in service there too (and other Latin American countries).
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:44 pm
Post subject: Re: These are at the Argentine Army Museum in Buenos Aires,

Thats a TAM VTCP

www.armyrecognition.co...iption.htm

Checking Jane's World Armies, the only half-tracks I can find still in service are M2s/M3s with the Dominican Republic - although Israel may still have them in reserve...

Neil
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Hellfish6
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 3:20 pm
Post subject: Re: These are at the Argentine Army Museum in Buenos Aires,

Maybe they just gave them up very recently. I'm 99% sure I've seen pics of Chilean, Mexican and Argentine (maybe Ecuadorean too?) half tracks that were at most a couple years old.

I know Peru only just gave up their M4s around 2000 and Mexico still may have its cavalry regiment with M5s, M8s and halftracks on the Guatemalan border. I know they saw service in Chiapas.
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Hellfish6
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 3:26 pm
Post subject: Re: These are at the Argentine Army Museum in Buenos Aires,



TAMs and some stuff on the TAM chassis
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 3:28 pm
Post subject: Re: These are at the Argentine Army Museum in Buenos Aires,

Looks like Leo 1 turret on the Marder chassis.

Interesting
Don
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 4:59 pm
Post subject: Re: These are at the Argentine Army Museum in Buenos Aires,

Thats a TAM tank.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAM_(tank)

www.armyrecognition.co...iption.htm

Neil
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 5:58 pm
Post subject: Re: These are at the Argentine Army Museum in Buenos Aires,

Yep, an old 1998 Jane's reference (World Markets For Armoured And Military Logistic Vehicles), refers to half-tracks in service with Argentina, Chile, the Dominican Republic and Mexico - as well as Benin, Cameroon, Chad, Greece, Israel, Madagascar, Senegal, Togo, and Congo/Zaire.

Further investigation shows they they remain in service with the Benin, Cameroon, the Dominican Republic, Iran, Israel (in reserve), Madagascar, Paraguay, Senegal, and Togo.

Neil
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 7:10 pm
Post subject: Re: These are at the Argentine Army Museum in Buenos Aires,

You learn something new everyday - the BMS-1 Alacran, a 1980s development project by Chile's Cardoen.



www.ejercito-armada-ex...concre.htm

Neil
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