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Can someone please help me locate a specific M59APC?
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Bob_Clifton
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:12 pm
Post subject: Can someone please help me locate a specific M59APC?

I am looking to find the location of this M59APC
public.fotki.com/pcmod...1/m59_apc/
It is taken from a file created by a gentleman named Mark Fergel who I cannot seem to get hold of (I've tried three different emails to no avail).
Can someone possibly identify the location of this vehicle? It is interesting to me because it is a rare mid production version and I would like to get a bunch of photos of it for an upcoming article. The most obvious mid production characteristic is the commanders cupola, which is very different from the more common M13 type (late) and the early Sherman type. If someone possibly knows of another mid production vehicle, I would really like to hear from you.
Thank you in advance.
Bob Clifton
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 5:08 pm
Post subject: Re: Can someone please help me locate a specific M59APC?

Got me... I have several locations with both M59s and Stuarts - Camp Roberts, Camp Luis Obispo, Littlefield's collection, all in California; Fort Knox, KY; Fort Snelling, MN; Texas Military Museum, Austin, TX; Fort Hood

But the Camp Roberts M59 has a different cupola, and the buildings at the rest of the locations look different to me...

Neil
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:05 pm
Post subject: Re: Can someone please help me locate a specific M59APC?

The background looks real similiar to Camp Shelby Mississippi...

My best guess...
Don
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 4:51 am
Post subject: Re: Can someone please help me locate a specific M59APC?

looking at picture 1 there appears to be an SP gun behind the M59 Can anyone tell from the muzzle brake what it is? Also in another of his albums he has a bunch of shots of the M3 that we just see the tail of in these pictures. In picture 32 in that albun there is a Commercial Jet coming in for a landing in the background (I think it is a Boeing 727) In the M4A3E8 Album just above the M59 one There are shots that make me believe that the Sherman is sitting justto the right of the M59. Maybe someone will recognize some of those shots. (There is one with a sign bolted or riveted to the side trackguard of the Sherman that may catch someones memory). Also to the right of the Sherman is an M7 Priest There is also a faded red building in the background of some of these shots. Also the yellow bush in the background appears to be forsythia, I believe that doesn't grow much north of Maryland/Pennsylvania but is common in the southeast. But I'm sure not a shrub expert.

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MarkHolloway
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 5:57 pm
Post subject: Re: Can someone please help me locate a specific M59APC?

There's also an M-59 at White Sands, New Mexico. It's sitting beside a road out in the middle of nowhere. Nobody knew where it came from or why it was there. Engines were missing Sad

I think Fort Irwin has the mortar version. M-84?

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SFC_Jeff_Button
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Can someone please help me locate a specific M59APC?

Ft Irwin does indeed have an M84 Mortar Carrier. The vehicle was welded shut and had absolutely no markings on the outside. It did have the M13 commander coupla with 50cal MG.
This vehicle shows the markings, (green triangle inside a circle) of the earliest OPFOR, called "Aggressor's". It was used from 1948-1965 by U.S.Army units.
The M59-84 were produced from 1954-1960 by the Ordnance Division of the Food Machinery and Chemical (FMC) Corp, in San Jose, CA.
-Over 6,300 M59 family vehicle were built.
-The M84 could carry 88rds of 4.2in mortar and 2205rds of 50cal.
-Weight was 47,100lbs / 23.55tons.
-Power came from twin GMC model 302, 6 cylinder, 4 cycle inline gasoline engines, producing 292 total HP at 3,600rpm.
- Transmission was twin model 301MG, 4speed forward, 1 reverse
- Fuel capacity was 135gal, (100 mile road range)
- Speed was 27mph on level roads, 3.5mph max water speed
Ft Hood has two M84's and an M59 or two if I'm not mistaken. I am still working on the Sherman research and have yet to get to other vehicles at this time. These pictures are of the M84 at Ft Irwin, CA.

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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:50 am
Post subject: Re: Can someone please help me locate a specific M59APC?

Hi Bob! Hi Folks!

- bsmart

looking at picture 1 there appears to be an SP gun behind the M59 Can anyone tell from the muzzle brake what it is?

In the M4A3E8 Album just above the M59 one There are shots that make me believe that the Sherman is sitting just to the right of the M59.


My guess would be that is the muzzle brake from a Sherman 76.
Sgt, Scouts Out!

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MarkHolloway
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:51 am
Post subject: Re: Can someone please help me locate a specific M59APC?

Jeff, The M84 I was thinking of is on the left side of the highway when you cross onto Ft Irwin. I think there was an M48 on the right.

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bsmart
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:35 am
Post subject: Re: Can someone please help me locate a specific M59APC?

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Bob! Hi Folks!

- bsmart

looking at picture 1 there appears to be an SP gun behind the M59 Can anyone tell from the muzzle brake what it is?

In the M4A3E8 Album just above the M59 one There are shots that make me believe that the Sherman is sitting just to the right of the M59.


My guess would be that is the muzzle brake from a Sherman 76.
Sgt, Scouts Out!


DUH - I'm feeling stupid. Especially when I mentioned that the Easy8 in his other set of photos appeared to be parked next to the M59. I'll only say that when i first looked at it the muzzle brake appeared to be larger than that but when I think about it the muzzle brakes you often see on 76mm shermans often appear to be 'oversized'.

Thanks

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SFC_Jeff_Button
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:39 am
Post subject: Re: Can someone please help me locate a specific M59APC?

Tumbleweed,
While I was stationed at Ft Irwin from 2002-2006, the M84 was only in one of two locations. It used to sit across from Jack Rabbit park, (about 150meters from the museum). Then was moved to its current location on 3rd St.,by the post HQ's. There was never an armored vehicle across from the M48,(pre A1 model) by the welcome sign. There is an M151 Sheridan thats heavily "mocked-up" to look like a T72, that sits on the other side of the sign, but they are both on the right side of the road. I have serial numbers and data on all the vehicles at Ft Irwin that are on display if anyone needs the info.

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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 4:42 am
Post subject: Re: Can someone please help me locate a specific M59APC?

Hi Bob! Hi Folks!

- bsmart

DUH - I'm feeling stupid. Especially when I mentioned that the Easy8 in his other set of photos appeared to be parked next to the M59. I'll only say that when i first looked at it the muzzle brake appeared to be larger than that but when I think about it the muzzle brakes you often see on 76mm shermans often appear to be 'oversized'.


My too! It took a while before I starting thinking it might be a Sherman muzzle. I was racking my brain trying to think of an artillery tube with a muzzle like that one that also set up that high. It was only after I copied your post and was cutting it down for my responce that I notice the comment about a Sherman being parked next to it.

That was an alertness check to see if anyone was paying attention, all the Sherman experts failed your test Bob.
Sgt, Scouts Out!

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Dontos
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 4:50 am
Post subject: Re: Can someone please help me locate a specific M59APC?

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Bob! Hi Folks!

- bsmart

DUH - I'm feeling stupid. Especially when I mentioned that the Easy8 in his other set of photos appeared to be parked next to the M59. I'll only say that when i first looked at it the muzzle brake appeared to be larger than that but when I think about it the muzzle brakes you often see on 76mm shermans often appear to be 'oversized'.


My too! It took a while before I starting thinking it might be a Sherman muzzle. I was racking my brain trying to think of an artillery tube with a muzzle like that one that also set up that high. It was only after I copied your post and was cutting it down for my responce that I notice the comment about a Sherman being parked next to it.

That was an alertness check to see if anyone was paying attention, all the Sherman experts failed your test Bob.
Sgt, Scouts Out!


Here you go....

[img]http://images5.fotki.com/v67/photos/1/147480/824009/M59_APC_a-vi.jpg?1080904850[/img] BUT%20WAIT!!!!%20%20Check%20this%20out%20%20:cool:%20 [img]http://images5.fotki.com/v67/photos/1/147480/824009/M59_APC_ak-vi.jpg?1080904905[/img]
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Bob_Clifton
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:35 am
Post subject: Re: Can someone please help me locate a specific M59APC?

I want to thank everyone for their efforts! My search continues. I do have some additional information now, thanks to Bob and Roy and others. I am also finding it interesting just how many of these vehicles are all over the US. It seems that no matter who I speak to about this vehicle, someone seems to be able to point out another one, somewhere in the states!

Maybe some additonal information-there is a white building in the background that is very common on many older, larger US military bases in the US. I may be mistaken, but most NG and AR bases, built by the states themsleves seem to be masonry.

Perhaps if I have worded my requested differently (Does anyone know where this M3A3 is?) I would have had a much larger group of people searching! Maybe M59's are not high on people's list to look at! Wink

Again, thank you everyone
Bob Clifton
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:54 am
Post subject: Re: Can someone please help me locate a specific M59APC?

Hmm... Aside from the usual suspects (Knox, Littlefield, etc), Fort AP Hill has an M3A3 Stuart... I have never been there, but have a contact I can ask...

Neil
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:58 am
Post subject: Re: Can someone please help me locate a specific M59APC?

Doh! E-mail bounce! Looks like I need to find a new AP Hill contact Sad

Neil
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