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Dontos, 1st Cav Museum M1...
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Dontos, 1st Cav Museum M1...

Hmm... From Jeff & Don's pics I see lots of SNs on skirts that dont start with L or D. Joe, I think I am confused again!

I'll have to check the APG Abrams again, but I dont remember any "badges" (my term) welded on the skirts like I see in Jeff's pics. The one I saw was stamped right into the skirt itself... Of course that may be because its an older tank... And I have to wonder if older tanks maybe didnt have D or L in front?...

Neil


Last edited by Neil_Baumgardner on Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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SFC_Jeff_Button
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Dontos, 1st Cav Museum M1...

Neil,
You'll notice that the tank that started this thread was "D790", from the 1st CAV Museum. It did also have that same number stamped into it's hull. I didn't look for this stamping on "1406". I guess I'll have to check those two remaining M1's sooner rather than later. One of them is located outside EastGate and is painted OD, while the other is located in front of the 4th ID HQ, beside their parade field. Then we'll see at least four different stampings. Heck, I might just have to stroll through an armor motor pool and check all their serial numbers and see what I come up with.

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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:22 pm
Post subject: Re: Dontos, 1st Cav Museum M1...

- SFC_Jeff_Button

Jeff,%20oh%20yeah,%20I%20see%20what%20you%20mean.%20Those%20\"badges\"%20look%20exactly%20the%20same...%20Hmm...%20We%20seem%20to%20have%20a%20mix%20of%20SNs%20with%20&%20without%20D%20or%20L...%20Low%20numbers%20without%20-%20such%20as%200076%20(0002%20possibly%20as%20well%20with%20confirmation).%20Mid-range%20numbers%20that%20had%20D%20or%20L%20-%20like%20D790.%20And%20higher%20numbers%20without%20-%20like%201406...%20 Joe%20did%20say%20something%20about%20later%20SNs%20not%20having%20the%20D%20or%20L%20identifiers%20-%20presumably%20after%20Detroit%20Tank%20Plant%20closed%20&%20it%20became%20redundant?%20I%20wonder%20if%20the%20first%20LRIP%20(110)%20tanks%20didnt%20have%20them%20either...%20
%20%20



Jeff, can you tell me where to find this stamp? It seems to be the only place its stamped on vice a plate/"badge"?

Neil
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SFC_Jeff_Button
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:33 pm
Post subject: Re: Dontos, 1st Cav Museum M1...

If I'm not mistaken, that stamping was on the right rear area, just to the left of the right tail light. I should have looked in the same spot on todays M1 but time was limited.

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Dontos
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:33 pm
Post subject: Re: Dontos, 1st Cav Museum M1...

The Left rear under the tail light....
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Dontos, 1st Cav Museum M1...

Okay, I assume in Jeff's picture the tail light is that rusty area at the very top? I think I looked in the wrong place, on the rear skirt...

Neil
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 4:16 am
Post subject: Re: Dontos, 1st Cav Museum M1...

- Neil_Baumgardner
Hmm... From Jeff & Don's pics I see lots of SNs on skirts that dont start with L or D. Joe, I think I am confused again!

I'll have to check the APG Abrams again, but I dont remember any "badges" (my term) welded on the skirts like I see in Jeff's pics. The one I saw was stamped right into the skirt itself... Of course that may be because its an older tank... And I have to wonder if older tanks maybe didnt have D or L in front?...

Neil


Just a guess but since the APG Abrams was a very early production they stamped the number right into the skirt plates. As production ramped up they just mass produced the ID plates and welded them on the skirt plates after they were installed on the vehicle instead of having to keep track of several seperate components that would be stacked up to be installed during the production proicess.

If we were to find others with numbers stamped directly on the plates I would wonder if the welded on badges came from tanks that went through refurb and instead of trying to keep sets together they just welded new IDs over the original numbers (Can we pry one off to see what is under it Wink ?)

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SFC_Jeff_Button
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 11:24 am
Post subject: Re: Dontos, 1st Cav Museum M1...

Here is the M1 on display in front of 4th ID HQ, at the side of their parade field. All the welded on serial plates read, "D739" This was also stamped into the right rear section of the hull, with reg number JZCIDD just under it. The turret number is 340. There is still one more display M1 to see, it's the OD one just outside east gate to the post. I'll try to get to it over the weekend.

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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Dontos, 1st Cav Museum M1...

Jeff, thanks for the info & pictures! Now I know exactly where & what to look for on the APG Abrams.

BTW, I'll be happy to note any & all SNs & RNs you find (on Abrams or any others) on the register. Not so worried about turret numbers though...

Neil
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SFC_Jeff_Button
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 3:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Dontos, 1st Cav Museum M1...

Neil,
Your welcome. I figured the turret numbers might be something that an actual ex-tanker might be able to elaborate on or maybe they might corralate into some sort of re-build data. Gotta go, I'm headed out to hit that OD M1 by east gate so I can post it tonight!!!

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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 3:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Dontos, 1st Cav Museum M1...

Okay, I guess I can include turret numbers as well - I just dont want to open it up to all sorts of M60, etc turret casting numbers!...

Neil
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SFC_Jeff_Button
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 3:24 pm
Post subject: Re: Dontos, 1st Cav Museum M1...

This is the OD green M1 that sits outside East Gate at Ft Hood. This is the last of the four that are on display around the post. Of the four, it is in the worst shape. I could find no weld number on the turret, no number stamped on the rear hull, and ne numbers either stamped or welded onto the side and rear plates, like on the previous M1's. I stuck my arm down through the (?) opening and got three interior shots. Sad, it looks like some of the "old" tanks I've been able to access in the past.
Well you M1 experts need to tell us all what stands out about this M1, esspecially the wierd stampings that are on each sidof the tank, on the side skirts.
By the way, the two boys in the photo's are my sons, Jeffrey 12, and Morgan 7. They enjoy the research almost as much as I do.

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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 2:29 am
Post subject: Re: Dontos, 1st Cav Museum M1...

Wow,
That's a pilot vehicle/test rig. Look at the .50 cal feed chute. Also the sprocket carrier. It has a center guide grove unlike the production M-1's. MRS on end of gun tube is also the prototype version. The #1 skirt is also non-standard with the lock on the side having a circular opening instead of a square. This tank is basically the same as the one in front of the Patton museum at Knox.

Joe D
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 5:26 am
Post subject: Re: Dontos, 1st Cav Museum M1...

A little History to possibly explain this vehicle...?

2 / 5 CAV, 1st CAV DIV conducted the M-1 fielding test back in 80-81 as I recall.

They drew the vehicles and then conducted a 'SWAP' with 2/67 Armor, 2nd AR DIV. The men and machines rotated. Why?? At the time 2nd AD had a priority due to a (fwd) Brigade assigned in Germany. 2AD had an immediate need for the latest Tanks...The M-1 Abrams.

This vehicle may be a 'leftover of that initial test. Remember 2AD was deactivated and 5th ID moved into that side of Post, from Ft Polk in 92-93. They were redesignated as 2nd AR DIV and eventually redesignated as 4th ID.

A side note:
In the summer of 1982, I attended ROTC 'Summer Camp' at Ft Riley Jansas & then spent a couple of weeks as a Cadet, assigned as the Plt Leader of 2nd Plt, B Company 2/67 Armor.

The Battalion had recently completed the move from 2/5 CAV, and were equipt with the M-1 Abrams. At that time, Tank Platoons had 5 tanks.

Its a small world I guess.....

Don
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 8:41 am
Post subject: Re: Dontos, 1st Cav Museum M1...

So is this a FSED pilot or an LRIP vehicle?

Neil
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