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M1A1 Track Center Guides
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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MarkHolloway
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 5:50 pm
Post subject: M1A1 Track Center Guides

On the newer style of track there are center guides with a 'hole' through them and some that are solid metal. Which is the newer style? Thanks.

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SFC_Jeff_Button
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 6:05 pm
Post subject: Re: M1A1 Track Center Guides

Tumbleweed,
I took these pictures this week of an XM-1 (FSED), Full-Scale Engineering Development (FSED) pilot vehicles (PV). Its located outside Eastgate here at Ft Hood. It's suppossed to be 1 of 11 built. If this is its original track, maybe it will help with your question. I don't know a lot about M1's but I am learning more every day.

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SFC_Jeff_Button
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 6:12 pm
Post subject: Re: M1A1 Track Center Guides

I believe this M1 has the solid center guides, I don't have any closer pictures.

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Sabot
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:11 pm
Post subject: Re: M1A1 Track Center Guides

- MarkHolloway
On the newer style of track there are center guides with a 'hole' through them and some that are solid metal. Which is the newer style? Thanks.
Mark, the original style was T-156 with forked teeth, the second style is T-158 with a solid tooth, and the late style is T-158LL with the open hole.

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MarkHolloway
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 5:07 am
Post subject: Re: M1A1 Track Center Guides

Thanks, Sabot. That's what I was curious about. Nice photos, Jeff. They tested five of those at Fort Bliss in 1978 I think it was.

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Dontos
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:47 am
Post subject: Re: M1A1 Track Center Guides

- MarkHolloway
Thanks, Sabot. That's what I was curious about. Nice photos, Jeff. They tested five of those at Fort Bliss in 1978 I think it was.


Cool ...1978-79. The primary test area, is all the Tank trails in the area behind Biggs Field.

My Senior year of High School.... Burges HS...(Roy that should sound familiar... )

Wish I had kept one of the signs that used to be posted out there....

WARNING: XM1 TANK TESTING AREA. KEEP OUT!! (or something to that effect)

Don
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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 9:31 am
Post subject: Re: M1A1 Track Center Guides

Hi Don! Hi Folks!

- Dontos

My Senior year of High School.... Burges HS...(Roy that should sound familiar... )

Wish I had kept one of the signs that used to be posted out there....

WARNING: XM1 TANK TESTING AREA. KEEP OUT!! (or something to that effect)


Hey, did you have anything to do with the Burges band? The old band director is the presdent of the local model club now days.

Keep Out! ? Why? The few times I saw them moving around, it looked like it as a max speed and they were quite! They run over you before you knew one was there!

One day out at Donna Anna Base Camp, a group of us had stopped by the road side to watch a 5-ton wrecker pull the pack out of a Abrams. The wrecker was about 75, maybe 100 yards from the road we were standing on. The only noise I was noticing was the engine on the wrecker when the guy next to me, tapped me and pointed to our rear.

There was an Abrams, following a ground guide, passing about three or four feet away from me and I hadn't noticed it's noise over the wrecker's. When you are around M113s, M551s, and M60s, the noise heard from the front and sides of an Abrams was very low.

I think the Army did it right when they developed the Abrams.
Sgt, Scouts Out!

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Dontos
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:00 am
Post subject: Re: M1A1 Track Center Guides

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Don! Hi Folks!

- Dontos

My Senior year of High School.... Burges HS...(Roy that should sound familiar... )

Wish I had kept one of the signs that used to be posted out there....

WARNING: XM1 TANK TESTING AREA. KEEP OUT!! (or something to that effect)


Hey, did you have anything to do with the Burges band? The old band director is the presdent of the local model club now days.

Keep Out! ? Why? The few times I saw them moving around, it looked like it as a max speed and they were quite! They run over you before you knew one was there!

One day out at Donna Anna Base Camp, a group of us had stopped by the road side to watch a 5-ton wrecker pull the pack out of a Abrams. The wrecker was about 75, maybe 100 yards from the road we were standing on. The only noise I was noticing was the engine on the wrecker when the guy next to me, tapped me and pointed to our rear.

There was an Abrams, following a ground guide, passing about three or four feet away from me and I hadn't noticed it's noise over the wrecker's. When you are around M113s, M551s, and M60s, the noise heard from the front and sides of an Abrams was very low.

I think the Army did it right when they developed the Abrams.
Sgt, Scouts Out!


I used to sit on top of some of the dunes, next to the warning signs, and wait for one of the XM-1's to go zooming by....

....almost got crunched by one, one particular time, while 'parking' out in the desert...... Cool (but then thats a different story, not quite appropriate for this DG. )

Anyway,...... I was in the Choir my senior year. Had a lot of friends in the Band though.

Ah the memories....
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SFC_Jeff_Button
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 6:32 pm
Post subject: Re: M1A1 Track Center Guides

What are the advantages of the various types of center guides? I also noticed that the rear drive sprocket has different outer plates. Whats the story on these? Do they differentiate between models, or are any of them more rare than another?

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Dontos
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 6:49 pm
Post subject: Re: M1A1 Track Center Guides

This 'Old Gal' has the Track retaining ring.
The%20idea%20is%20the%20retaining%20ring%20keeps%20the%20track%20from%20being%20thrown%20off%20the%20sprocket.%20%20(%20IN%20THEORY!!)%20%20It%20also%20is%20supposed%20to%20'knock'%20loose%20end%20connectors%20back%20on,%20thus%20preventing%20them%20from%20being%20thrown%20off%20%20(%20again....%20IN%20THEORY!!). The%20retaining%20ring%20is%20bolted%20over%20the%20sprocket,%20on%20the%20sprocket%20hub. Reality%20Check: The%20track%20retaining%20ring%20insured%20that%20WHEN%20a%20tank%20threw%20track%20(to%20the%20outside)%20it%20'sliced'%20or%20even%20'cut'%20the%20track%20blocks.%20%20More%20damage%20to%20more%20track%20blocks.%20%20Requiring%20replacement%20blocks%20in%20excess%20of%20the%202%20or%204%20that%20each%20tank%20carried.%20%20 Also%20the%20retaining%20ring%20had%20to%20be%20removed%20to%20gain%20access%20to%20the%20sprocket%20(if%20replacement%20is%20required).%20%20It%20became%20a%20hinderance,%20so%20'we'%20began%20leaving%20the%20retaining%20rings%20off.%20%20%20%20 Proper%20and%20continous%20Track%20maint.%20made%20the%20retaining%20ring%20useless.%20%20I%20always%20did%20a%20walk%20around%20when%20doing%20a%20short%20halt.%20%20Besides%20one%20could%20answer%20natures%20call%20AND%20have%20a%20smoke%20while%20checking%20track.... Crews%20tended%20to%20dismount%20the%20#7%20skirt%20while%20in%20the%20field.%20%20It%20was%20basicly%20useless,%20and%20if%20the%20#7%20became%20clogged%20with%20mud,%20it%20had%20a%20tendancy%20to%20snap%20the%20bolts%20off%20on%20rear%20'mud%20flaps',%20thus%20kicked%20up%20mud%20would%20pile%20up%20on%20the%20back%20deck%20and%20bustle%20rack.%20%20Personal%20gear%20would%20get%20trashed.%20%20 The%20#7%20skirt%20there%20is%20a%20typical%20early%20skirt(XM-1%20&%20'slick'%20M-1)%20In%20the%20mid%20to%20late%2080's%20and%20MWO%20was%20applied%20and%20this%20types%20were%20cut%20out%20to%20allow%20mud%20to%20fall%20out%20of%20the%20hub.%20%20Like%20that,%20mud%20built%20up%20and%20bulged%20the%20skirt%20out,%20and%20then%20would%20cause%20damage%20to%20the%20rear%20flap.%20%20In%20the%20late%2080's%20#%207%20skirts%20were%20made%20with%20the%20cut%20out.%20(As%20seen%20in%20this%20photo)

Sorry for the long winded narrative....
HTH
Don
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SFC_Jeff_Button
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 7:09 pm
Post subject: Re: M1A1 Track Center Guides

The "long winded narrative" is fine! I'm familiar with the walk-around checks when coming to a quick halt during a road march. On the M106 and 1064's, we needed to check the front drive sproket bolts and prop shaft bolts constantly. One one road march at Ft Hood, we were almost all the way to the 4th ID wash rack when the lead M1064 suddenly veared right and almost into the drainage ditch. I remember the TC being tossed aginst the side of of his hatch when it happened. The whole platoon stopped and ran forward figuring the vehicle had thrown track. But upon walking around everything looked fine.
Upon everyone kinding the driver about being a Moron, we told him to start up the vehicle and straighten the vehicle out. He fired it up and when he put it in gear, BAM BAM BAM. He screamed and shut the vehicle off. The front left prop shaft had sheared loose and had beaten a hole clear through the drivers firewall by his feet. A matter of inches kept him from looseing a toe or more. As I was the only one that ever carried a camera, I took pictures of the damage, (but it was with a 35mm and I can't find them now). That shaft also got caught in the hydralic lines and wiring and ripped everything out. That track was deadlined for over a year due to that hole in the hull and remained so until it was patched.
Now I apologize for being long winded!

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Dontos
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:19 pm
Post subject: Re: M1A1 Track Center Guides

Oh....Almost forgot.....

Track differences



Don
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Sabot
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:50 am
Post subject: Re: M1A1 Track Center Guides

There are two basic styles of track as pictured above. The one on the left (forked) has the canted non-replaceable track pads and the type on the right has replaceable track pads. The replaceable pads were created because the non-replaceable type wore out too quickly. It is cheaper to replace pads than the entire tracks.

The replaceable pad track went to a hollow center guide to try to save on weight and were probably cheaper to manufacture because they used less metal.

The old style track is still showing up in Iraq due to shortages in track stocks. There was nothing wrong with the old style track so it can be used. Even track that wears more quickly is better than having unserviceable track.

As Jeff asks, the solid or hollowed center guides have an advantage over the forked ones in the way they are attached. Look closely, you will see the forked ones are attached with one nut and bolt.

Sometimes the forks get bent inwards and you cannot get a socket over the nut between the tines of the fork. The solid or hollowed ones have two nuts/bolts on each side of the guide. The can be easily removed with out interference from the center guide blade.

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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 5:01 am
Post subject: Re: M1A1 Track Center Guides

Hi Sabot! Hi Folks!

- Sabot

Sometimes the forks get bent inwards and you cannot get a socket over the nut between the tines of the fork. The solid or hollowed ones have two nuts/bolts on each side of the guide. The can be easily removed with out interference from the center guide blade.


I bet many an old tanker who fought with bent forks wished he had thought of the idea of putting the bolts on the outside of the center guide.

Isn't that part of why the M88s carried a cutting torch?
Sgt, Scouts Out!

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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 11:56 am
Post subject: Re: M1A1 Track Center Guides

Hi everyone,
Another advantage to the T158 center guide was it didn't "sing" when you were moving like the old fork ones did. The old ones acted like a tuning fork that gave that familiar high pitched squeal you'd here for miles. With the new ones you could really be sneaky at night. The noisiest thing was the sprocket crunch which was no where near as loud. Yes, you can be sneaky with a tank. Just have patience and the willingness to ground guide long distances.

Joe D
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