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T43 / M103 at Ft Hood from Lil-J...
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Jeffrey_Button
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 4:32 pm
Post subject: T43 / M103 at Ft Hood from Lil-J...

Sience my dad has been having all the fun with the "slick 60" I have found some thing bigger. The T43/M103 at the 4th Id musem. Soon I hope to go back for the serial number, but it started rainnig so I stuck inside for the day. Sad


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Jeffrey Button, aka "LiL-J"
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SFC_Jeff_Button
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 9:23 pm
Post subject: Re: T43 / M103 at Ft Hood from Lil-J...

My son posted this and I actually thought it would draw more interest than it has. Is this because is more common than I thought? I was under the impression that these were rather rare. Neil, have you got any numbers for how many are out there?

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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 9:45 pm
Post subject: Re: T43 / M103 at Ft Hood from Lil-J...

Sorry, I meant to reply. Thanks for the pics Lil-J! I like the "heavies" as well...

There only appear to be 4 T43 pilots (aka prototypes) out there, and about 20 M103s - so not that common. Unfortunately I dont know where to look for SNs on them...

Neil
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tankmodeler
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:08 pm
Post subject: Re: T43 / M103 at Ft Hood from Lil-J...

Very cool. I love M103s. Even scratchbuilt one a while ago. Look like a simple extension to an M48, but they ain't!

Paul

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Paul Roberts
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SFC_Jeff_Button
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:11 pm
Post subject: Re: T43 / M103 at Ft Hood from Lil-J...

Tankmodeler, you got a picture of that finished tank?

I haven't really looked hard on the m103 here for a serial number, but now that I'm in the good graces of the 4th ID museum, maybe they'll let me inside of this as well?!?!?!

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SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
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tankmodeler
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 4:25 pm
Post subject: Re: T43 / M103 at Ft Hood from Lil-J...

- SFC_Jeff_Button
Tankmodeler, you got a picture of that finished tank?

No, I'm afraid not. I built it as a master for a kit and then the purchaser went out of business after paying me, but before producing the model! I have a hull and turret and a few bits, but not enough for the whole thing. I'll finish it some day, but I'll need to cast a bunch more parts to do that and I'm just not in the mood lately. Smile

Paul

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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:20 pm
Post subject: Re: T43 / M103 at Ft Hood from Lil-J...

Accurate Armour is supposed to have an M103A2 kit this year - although their kits are usually pretty expensive!:
www.accurate-armour.co...navlevel=2

Neil
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JimWeb
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:58 pm
Post subject: Re: T43 / M103 at Ft Hood from Lil-J...

Cool an Independant as well... hope they are only making one kit Wink

Cool

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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:19 pm
Post subject: Re: T43 / M103 at Ft Hood from Lil-J...

Yeah, if I didnt want to compete with Sabot for most unbuilt tanks, I'd be tempted to get the A1 Independent as well. I think that one would be fun to build.

Neil
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:39 pm
Post subject: Re: T43 / M103 at Ft Hood from Lil-J...

1959: Dueling Tanks at Grafenwoehr



I'd love to learn more about this unit...Only M103 equipt Armor BN in the Army. How many, which unit, any SN / RN data.....

Perhaps the makings of another 'Impossible Quest'...... Mr. Green

Don
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SFC_Jeff_Button
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:04 pm
Post subject: Re: T43 / M103 at Ft Hood from Lil-J...

Someone with some computer skill / knowledge might be able to zoom in on those bumper numbers and ID those tanks a little better. Then maybe Jeffrey can go back to the M103 at the museum and check for those markings in the same locations. Just maybe they will still show through!?!?

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Buq-Buq
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:58 pm
Post subject: Re: T43 / M103 at Ft Hood from Lil-J...

Hey, guys, take a closer look . . . I think that Lil-J may have dug up an aberrant machine here. A quick glance through Firepower tells me that those fenders are not originally from an M103. With those rounded edges and distinctive stowage boxes, I'm betting that they came off an M60-series vehicle.

As for the 'Dueling gun tubes' picture, Hunnicutt indicates that the vehicles in the photo are from D Company, 33rd Armor. Here's more from Firepower:

"By January 1958, the new M103s were deployed in Europe with the 899th Tank Battalion. In May of the same year, the unit was redesignated as the 2nd Heavy Tank Battalion, 33rd Armor. The organization of this unit differed from that of the standard medium tank battalion. It consisted of four companies, each composed of six platoons. Each platoon was equipped with three tanks and one jeep. This provided a total of eighteen tanks per company since the company headquarters tank section was eliminated."

I don't seem to be able to find any information on how long the M103s lasted in U.S. Army service. If my memory is correct, it served only a very short time, fewer years than even the M60A2, I believe. The M103-series continued in U.S.M.C. active service until 1973.

So Lil-J . . . what's the deal with that No. 4 roadwheel on the left side? Was it being jacked up from underneath? The No. 7 torsion bar on that side looks to be broken as well, and the shocks are similarly "untidy". How did you manage to get the snapshot of the interior of the engine bay? Is there an open inspection plate on the backside of the vehicle?

Great pictures, Lil-J . . . thanks for sharing!


Mark
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 11:38 pm
Post subject: Re: T43 / M103 at Ft Hood from Lil-J...

Heres a few things to ponder....



Don
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Jens_O_Mehner
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 12:59 am
Post subject: Re: T43 / M103 at Ft Hood from Lil-J...

Don,

I think the bumper number would be more like 3triangle2-33triangle and the individual vehicle on the other side A-number, B-number etc.- we know 2-33 was in 3rd AD.

The battle boards were used on firing ranges, but I can't remember if they indicated the lane they fired at or the sequence in which they fired- they weren't indicative of the tank's position within the unit, though, that came later, when turret numbers decreased in size as well.

Cheers,

Jens O.
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Buq-Buq
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:46 am
Post subject: Re: T43 / M103 at Ft Hood from Lil-J...

There is a nice close-up photo of D33 in the Hunnicutt book that shows the [front] bumper numbers. They read:

7A 33[triangle] D33

I'm guessing that "7A" stands for Seventh Army . . .

Is this indicating that the battalion was an Army-level unit? Perhaps the M103s weren't actually a part of 3rd Armored Division . . . which was my belief, since the 33rd Armored Regiment has traditionally been linked to the 3AD. In retrospect, it makes sense that the [original] 899th Heavy Tank Battalion would have been at least a Corps-level unit due to its role and designation . . .

All of which makes me wonder about how these beasts were employed. In the USAEUR war plans, did they keep them grouped together as a battalion, or were they doled out in companies or platoons to various armor battalions that might have needed their 'big punch' support?



Mark
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