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M4A? Sherman with unusual M36 turret in Poland
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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the_shadock
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 2:21 am
Post subject: M4A? Sherman with unusual M36 turret in Poland

This photo comes from the Poland AFVs register on which I'm working on with Polar. Here is a photo of a weird vehicle, located at Zagan, Lubuskie :



Does this have an official name ?. And if not, is it usual that M36 turrets are mounted on Sherman hulls, or is this a "do-it-yourself" because the hull hadn't any turret and that was the only one they found?

P-O

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jcneel
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 3:14 am
Post subject: Re: M4A? Sherman with unusual M36 turret in Poland

During WW2, in an effort to get the 90mm gun into service as quickly as possible, 187 M36 Jackson turrets were mounted on M4A3 hulls and sent to Europe. These were designated as the M36B1. In the Squadron "Tank Destroyers in Action" book - there is a photo of one with kill markings - so they did see combat.

Some were also cobbled together post war as well (for instance for Yugaslavia service). I beleive that the M36B1 located at Fort Hood, Texas is one that was a former Yugoslavia service vehicle.

cn

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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 3:17 am
Post subject: Re: M4A? Sherman with unusual M36 turret in Poland

Wasnt there a M36B1 found in Iraq & recovered by the Poles - perhaps this one?

Neil
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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 3:33 am
Post subject: Re: M4A? Sherman with unusual M36 turret in Poland

Hi P-O and J.C.! Hi Folks!

Is there any chance that Polar might be able to get a photo of the rear lower engine plate so we can see if the orginal GAA engine might still be there or if it was replaced by something newer?

- jcneel
During WW2, .........one with kill markings - so they did see combat.

Some were also cobbled together post war as well (for instance for Yugaslavia service). I beleive that the M36B1 located at Fort Hood, Texas is one that was a former Yugoslavia service vehicle.


Working off the top of my head, I remember reading somewhere that the first M36B1s arrived in the ETO just before the start of the Battle of the Budge. The first German units to get shot at by them, reported them as a NEW Allied tank.

As for the "post war", as I understand that, the "cobbling" (and the Ft Hood vehicle) consisted of shoe horning newer Soviet engines into the hull, not M36 turrets placed on M4A3 hulls.

My 2 cents,
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 4:08 am
Post subject: Re: M4A? Sherman with unusual M36 turret in Poland

There are several ex Yugoslav M36 series vehicles in the U.S. Off the top of my head I can think of the one at Hubbard, OH and at the VMMV in Virginia. Both of thos e had been converted to Soviet Diesel engines. I know the one at Hubbard has been 'reconverted' back to it's original engine. It does have one feature that stumped me until it was explained. There were small holes drilled at an angle into the gun barrel. One of the volunteers at the museum explained that it was because the gun had been replaced by a leter model with a fume extractor. and the outer casing of the fume extractor had been removed just leaving the holes. Looking at the picture of the Ft Hood M36B1 I notice it has a bore evacuator on it. I am pretty sure this is also a Yugoslavian mod.

When I saw the picture at the head of this thread I wondered if the Polish M36B1 was the one recovered from Iraq. Looking at the picture again it appears to have a bore evacuator as well as some other modification to the muzzle. Does anyone have pictures of the gun of the Iraqi M36B1 handy?

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JimWeb
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 5:37 am
Post subject: Re: M4A? Sherman with unusual M36 turret in Poland

Looking at the picture of the Ft Hood M36B1 I notice it has a bore evacuator on it. I am pretty sure this is also a Yugoslavian mod.
[/quote]

You are right Bob - the yugoslavs replaced the barrels, when they wore out, with those from the M47 which they also received.

Rivet-counters would refer to the Fort Hood & polish vehicles as SO-90-M36B1 or SO-90-M36B1 Mod-1 if fitted with the soviet tank engine.

Cool

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Last edited by JimWeb on Mon May 21, 2007 6:24 am; edited 1 time in total
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 5:48 am
Post subject: Re: M4A? Sherman with unusual M36 turret in Poland

From old discussions on the G104 group, it is the one recovered from Iraq. Here's pictures.

www.surfacezero.com/g5...hp?cat=797



Neil
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JimWeb
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 6:29 am
Post subject: Re: M4A? Sherman with unusual M36 turret in Poland

- Neil_Baumgardner




Note the sub-calibre adaptor poking through the muzzle-brake...

Cool

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bsmart
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 7:16 am
Post subject: Re: M4A? Sherman with unusual M36 turret in Poland

That provides some confirmation that this is the same vehicle. It looks like it is well cared for

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Polar
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 12:51 am
Post subject: Re: M4A? Sherman with unusual M36 turret in Poland

- Neil_Baumgardner
Wasnt there a M36B1 found in Iraq & recovered by the Poles - perhaps this one?

Neil

Yes Neil this M36B1 is from Iraq.
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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 3:29 am
Post subject: Re: M4A? Sherman with unusual M36 turret in Poland

Hi Folks!

Looks like somebody, or a lot of somebodies, did a lot hard work to clean that old gal up.

Hey Polar! Are you close enough to that vehicle to get some good side and rear views of it?

To all those who saved that vehicle from a scrap metal dealer in Iraq, cleaned it up and placed in on display, well done!


Sgt, Scouts Out!

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Polar
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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 8:08 am
Post subject: Re: M4A? Sherman with unusual M36 turret in Poland

Roy I only see this vehicle on photos and I don't have any pictures rear this vehicle. Confused
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worthhaggerton
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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2007 6:57 am
Post subject: Re: M4A? Sherman with unusual M36 turret in Poland

Hello from Texas,
Did the old M36 Tamaya instruction sheet also showed the M36 turret on an M4A3 chassis.
I built a few this way during my war gaming years.

Worth Haggerton
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2007 7:22 am
Post subject: Re: M4A? Sherman with unusual M36 turret in Poland

I believe we've had this discussion before, but I thought I'd add that Charles Bailey, in Faint Praise: American Tanks and Tank Destroyers During World War II, stated that he believed that the M36B1 would have been a good ad-hoc solution to the need for a better armed Sherman in Europe.

Neil
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