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Well they ride about in an afv usually
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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JimWeb
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:22 am
Post subject: Well they ride about in an afv usually

New standard British Army infantry section... thought it may be worth talking about.

Note the number of MG's and the fact that only two men carry rifles... one of which has a grenade launcher.

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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:26 am
Post subject: Re: Well they ride about in an afv usually

STANDARD army infantry section?! Shocked Who's going to hump the ammo?

I've gone out with a "heavy" team before, and that meant two MG's among twelve guys.


(if they're in an AFV alla' time, how are they infantry?)
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JimWeb
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:45 am
Post subject: Re: Well they ride about in an afv usually

er Doug APCs which carry infantry are classed as AFVs as well. Last time I looked in an active service Warrior the floor was covered in ammunition boxes....

I told you those camouflage camiknickers were way too tight - they're restricting the flow of blood to your brain Wink

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bsmart
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:47 am
Post subject: Re: Well they ride about in an afv usually

Okay I see a Machine gun on the Front Right. What are the other weapons in the front row? It looks like the one on the left is different from the other two
Then in the back row The soldier on the left appears to have a different weapon than the others but the three on lhe right appear to be the same.
So what are they all?

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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:49 am
Post subject: Re: Well they ride about in an afv usually

Doctrinal thing...I'm inclined to think of an entire squad (basically) with machine guns as armored crewmen on a dismount rather than infantry, if they're gonna' pour out of an AFV. They aint' gonna' go on a lot of 15K hikes with a combat loadout for them guns. But whatever.
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:50 am
Post subject: Re: Well they ride about in an afv usually

Okay, let me take a guess - dont shoot me for getting the infantry weapons wrong!

From top-left to bottom right:

Standard SA 80 / L85 or whatever they are calling it these days rifle...
3 L86 Light Support Weapon variants - now known as Designated Marksman Rifle, so I guess these are now rifles as well...
1 SA 80 / L85 with grenade launcher
2 L108 FN Minimis (like the US M249 SAW)
1 L7 FN MAG (like the US M240)

Neil


Last edited by Neil_Baumgardner on Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:54 am; edited 2 times in total
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:51 am
Post subject: Re: Well they ride about in an afv usually

- bsmart
Okay I see a Machine gun on the Front Right. What are the other weapons in the front row? It looks like the one on the left is different from the other two
Then in the back row The soldier on the left appears to have a different weapon than the others but the three on lhe right appear to be the same.
So what are they all?


The guy front left has a over/under rifle with something like an M203 40mm grenade launcher.
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:55 am
Post subject: Re: Well they ride about in an afv usually

- Neil_Baumgardner
Okay, let me take a guess - dont shoot me for getting the infantry weapons wrong!

From top-left to bottom right:

Standard SA 80 / L85 or whatever they are calling it these days rifle...
3 L86 Light Support Weapon variants - now known as Designated Marksman Rifle, so I guess these are now rifles as well...
1 SA 80 / L85 with grenade launcher
2 L108 FN Minimis (like the US M249 SAW)
1 L7 FN MAG (like the US M240)

Neil


Neil, can you fill us in on what's mag and what's belt fed and what caliber (so's we don't have to look it up...seems you already know this stuff)
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:56 am
Post subject: Re: Well they ride about in an afv usually

L85, L86 and L108 Minimi all fire 5.56. L7 FN MAG fires 7.62. Minimis & MAG are belt fed, others magazine fed (although some Minimi variants can used a magazine, not sure about the British ones).

Neil
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Well they ride about in an afv usually

Well, things get more reasonable at 5.56, especially if they have at least the option of belt/mag (or maybe drum?) for portability. I don't know how those things are fitted out and that isn't shown in the picture (nor are these guys shown with their loadout).


Ahhh....30 rd. Mags....basically a rifle.

www.project-x.org.uk/i...lllsws.jpg

Now we're down to ONE machine gun for the whole unit.
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Rikard_Hufschmied
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Well they ride about in an afv usually

- Neil_Baumgardner
L85, L86 and L108 Minimi all fire 5.56. L7 FN MAG fires 7.62. Minimis & MAG are belt fed, others magazine fed (although some Minimi variants can used a magazine, not sure about the British ones).

Neil


Both the L85 and L86 are of the A2 variant, they can use all standard M16 type magazines and fire 5.56mm NATO. The Minimi Para is 5.56mm NATO belt and magazine fed (all Minimis have the magazine option), belt primary and M16 type magazine second. The L7A2 GPMG is belt fed 7.62MM NATO.

The much maligned L85/L86 series were extensively reworked by Heckler and Koch in the late 90's to rid it of most serious shortcomings.
The L86A2 LSW (Light Support Weapon) is more often used as a light sniper rifle than a sustained fire weapon.

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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Well they ride about in an afv usually

Actually the Mk 46 Mod 0 version of the SAW cannot use a magazine - I should have said most Minimis can use a magazine (but the Mk 46 is an exception).

Neil
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Rikard_Hufschmied
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Well they ride about in an afv usually

- Neil_Baumgardner
Actually the Mk 46 Mod 0 version of the SAW cannot use a magazine - I should have said most Minimis can use a magazine (but the Mk 46 is an exception).

Neil


And I should have added - not knowing all US variants Smile

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JimWeb
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Well they ride about in an afv usually

Apparently the guy with the straight SA80 gets to carry rifle grenades as well later this year.

The section also carries two baton guns in Iraq.

Cool

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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Well they ride about in an afv usually

I have also heard that using a magazine tends to jam a SAW; assume but dont know if the same holds true for other Minimis...

Neil
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