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New Wheatcroft Collection Acquisitions
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Neil_Baumgardner
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Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 6:03 pm
Post subject: New Wheatcroft Collection Acquisitions

Per the website:

www.wheatcroftcollecti.../home.html

"26.06.07
"New vehicle include a Sherman (Composite) with bulldozer blade, a Valentine Archer, a Krupp Protze, a Pzkw IV Ausf. J. Aslo [sic] two forty foot loads of various spare parts arrived. One of these loads was spares for Radial engines, most of which were brand new and still packed in cosmoline.
"The second load included concrete turrets and some King Tiger spares. Typically spares are collected and stored overseas until a full load is complete, then it is shipped.
"Work has commenced on preparing a second Panther hull for restoration.
"In July a fully restored and running SdKfz 251 Ausf D will be arriving. We are planning to carry out a full study and hopefully some video when it appears."

It appears these came from Latrun in Israel. The Archer is almost certainly ex-Egyptian.

Here's some photo galleries of the new arrivals:
www.wheatcroftcollecti...dozer.html
www.wheatcroftcollecti...rcher.html
www.wheatcroftcollecti...zkpfj.html
www.wheatcroftcollecti...lytur.html
www.wheatcroftcollecti...oving.html

Neil
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the_shadock
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 7:26 pm
Post subject: Re: New Wheatcroft Collection Acquisitions

I wonder how many more Panzer IVs does the Latrun museum own "under the fence" ..

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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:59 am
Post subject: Re: New Wheatcroft Collection Acquisitions

Hi Folks!

Very interesting Composite hull Sherman. Correct me if I am wrong again, but were not all the 105 how Shermans based on M4A0 and M4A3 hulls?

Sgt, Scouts Out!

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A2_Prius
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 4:14 am
Post subject: Re: New Wheatcroft Collection Acquisitions

"When are you going to clean up the garage?!?!?"

"Honey, I'll get to it as soon as I can!!"
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Rikard_Hufschmied
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 5:41 am
Post subject: Re: New Wheatcroft Collection Acquisitions

- the_shadock
I wonder how many more Panzer IVs does the Latrun museum own "under the fence" ..


... and Stug's!

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Hanno_Spoelstra
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:45 am
Post subject: Re: New Wheatcroft Collection Acquisitions

- Roy_A_Lingle
Correct me if I am wrong again, but were not all the 105 how Shermans based on M4A0 and M4A3 hulls?


Yes, only M4(105) and M4A3(105)'s rolled off the prodcution line. Must have been cobbled up by the French ro Israelis.

Hanno
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toadmanstankpictures
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 10:16 am
Post subject: Re: New Wheatcroft Collection Acquisitions

I wonder what Latrun received in exchange for the the M4 as this was the only M4 Composite they had.

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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 10:31 am
Post subject: Re: New Wheatcroft Collection Acquisitions

Yet another case of never say never with Shermans...

Neil
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 6:37 pm
Post subject: Re: New Wheatcroft Collection Acquisitions

- Hanno_Spoelstra
- Roy_A_Lingle
Correct me if I am wrong again, but were not all the 105 how Shermans based on M4A0 and M4A3 hulls?


Yes, only M4(105) and M4A3(105)'s rolled off the prodcution line. Must have been cobbled up by the French ro Israelis.

Hanno


But isn't a composite hull Sherman an M-4. I don't think it got a new designation so if alll 105mm Shermans are M4 or M4A3 than it is possible that a composite hull Sherman was built with a 105. (I'm not saying it happened just that it can't be ruled out by that limitation)

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toadmanstankpictures
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 8:08 pm
Post subject: Re: New Wheatcroft Collection Acquisitions

- bsmart
- Hanno_Spoelstra
- Roy_A_Lingle
Correct me if I am wrong again, but were not all the 105 how Shermans based on M4A0 and M4A3 hulls?


Yes, only M4(105) and M4A3(105)'s rolled off the prodcution line. Must have been cobbled up by the French ro Israelis.

Hanno


But isn't a composite hull Sherman an M-4.

Yes.
- bsmart
I don't think it got a new designation so if alll 105mm Shermans are M4 or M4A3 than it is possible that a composite hull Sherman was built with a 105. (I'm not saying it happened just that it can't be ruled out by that limitation)

With the exception of the pilot M4(105) which was built on a composite hull and still survives in Michigan, 105 howitzer Shermans were produced on M4(welded hull) and M4A3. The M4(105) on the composite hull that Wheatcroft has is ex-Israeli and was probably converted to a 105 by them. Furthermore, it was just "found" on an Israeli Army base within the past few years and was part of the Latrun collection. However, it was not on display there.

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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 8:34 am
Post subject: Re: New Wheatcroft Collection Acquisitions

Hi Bob! Hi Folks!

- bsmart

But isn't a composite hull Sherman an M-4.


Yes.

- bsmart

I don't think it got a new designation so if all 105mm Shermans are M4 or M4A3 than it is possible that a composite hull Sherman was built with a 105. (I'm not saying it happened just that it can't be ruled out by that limitation)


The M4A0 Shermans that were build as 105 How tanks used the later production hulls which had the larger hatchs.

The earlier M4A0 Shermans that were first build with the smaller hatchs were the ones that where later converted to the composite hull with the harger hatchs.

If a/some composite/s was build with a 105 how and shipped overseas, that would be a new fact in the history of the Sherman.
Sense this vehicle came from Israel, then it's just another one of their mix and match parts program to field the max number of tanks.

Either way, it is a very rare Sherman.
Sgt, Scouts Out!

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General G.S. Patton Jr.
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Garry_Redmon
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 9:23 am
Post subject: Re: New Wheatcroft Collection Acquisitions

One observation on the Panzer IV. It looks like it had the late-war one piece hatch that the Syrians cut in half and made into a split hatch.

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