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M1A2 Turret Blown Off?
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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MarkHolloway
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 8:30 am
Post subject: M1A2 Turret Blown Off?

I found this on the Internet. No caption with it. Appears to have been blown off but I don't see burn marks or anything else to indicate an explosion. Also, the ammo blow-off panels are gone. Anyone know about this photo?

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mike_Duplessis
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 11:03 am
Post subject: Re: M1A2 Turret Blown Off?

At first I thought that was one of those well-circulated picts from awhile ago (2004-5?). BUT I then noticed the loader's gun shield. Uh oh, that's not a picture of an incident from several years back. Can anyone say when the Abrams loader's gun shield first appeared?
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Hellfish6
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 11:05 am
Post subject: Re: M1A2 Turret Blown Off?

Its not an M1A2. Looks like it probably rolled over an IED powerful enough to blow the turret off.
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keef
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 11:07 am
Post subject: Re: M1A2 Turret Blown Off?

Are you sure its just not Bogged down to the turret ring?
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Tanklord
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:30 pm
Post subject: Re: M1A2 Turret Blown Off?

Looks like part of the hull peeking out to the left. If it had been blown off, seems there would have been more damage.
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 1:14 pm
Post subject: Re: M1A2 Turret Blown Off?

- keef
Are you sure its just not Bogged down to the turret ring?


That's what I was thinking. It looks like a canal in the background. Possibly one of those canal edge roads collapsing?

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MarkHolloway
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 1:53 pm
Post subject: Re: M1A2 Turret Blown Off?

- Hellfish6
Its not an M1A2. Looks like it probably rolled over an IED powerful enough to blow the turret off.

D'OH! Confused

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Dontos
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:43 pm
Post subject: Re: M1A2 Turret Blown Off?

Heres my 'analysis' of the photo Rolling Eyes ....



Not that I have any advanced information or knowledge, Its purely the observations of a retired 19K44K42S Rolling Eyes .

BTW: For those who find it hard to believe that the turret can sheer off, and slide forward....

I saw, first hand, just such an incident. In Germany (1988), 3/8 CAV (3rd AD) had an M1A1 'plow' into one of the M114 reinforced 'berms' on Range 117. The unit was conducting night-time Tank Table VIII 'dry' runs on Range 117. The drivers night sight malfunctioned and the driver failed to halt the tank, before it hit the sturdy berm, at approx 30 MPH!!.

The turret sheered off at the turret ring, and slid forward a couple of feet.

As it turns out, a number of turret ring bolts had been omitted during final assembly ( at the factory!!)



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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:24 am
Post subject: Re: M1A2 Turret Blown Off?

I doubt if it happened very recently,

I'm basing that on the uniforms, looks like DCU's with older BDU Interceptor vests. The picture is not that good to make a definative guess. Also could be USMC.

From what I can tell by the picture a large blast went off under the tank centered on the forward engine compartment. That would explain the turret launching forward of the hull. It would also explain why the turret sponson boxes have their lids ripped off and the rear bustle rack is bent in. I believe the blow out panels were removed after the blast in order to take all the ammo out prior to recovery. With the turret sustaining that much damage I'm sure that was the easiest way. Looks like she was equipped with the "Drop Rack System" which would make it easy to do. The weapons and all crew equipment has been removed already. But again, it's just a guess.

Dontos,
I remember hearing about the berm incident in Germany. Was at NTC at the time and still dinosour jocking. Made us wonder WTF???? M1's we saw roll and crash didn't loose their turrets. Heard about the missing bolts later.

Joe D
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mike_Duplessis
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:14 pm
Post subject: Re: M1A2 Turret Blown Off?

Yeh, those uniforms do have a 'Marine' look about them. I heard something recently about 'fertilizer' bombs under roadways that are big enough to flip an Abrams or Bradley.

I wonder if the blow-out panels are missing because someone got the bright idea that unloading the vehicle through the open panels would be much easier than laboriously hoisting the rounds them thru the hatch. Oh yeh, if the turrets off the vehicle that world sorta be their only option. Rolling Eyes
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JimWeb
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:26 pm
Post subject: Re: M1A2 Turret Blown Off?

- mike_Duplessis
Yeh, those uniforms do have a 'Marine' look about them. I heard something recently about 'fertilizer' bombs under roadways that are big enough to flip an Abrams or Bradley.

I wonder if the blow-out panels are missing because someone got the bright idea that unloading the vehicle through the open panels would be much easier than laboriously hoisting the rounds them thru the hatch. Oh yeh, if the turrets off the vehicle that world sorta be their only option. Rolling Eyes


Particularly if the crew are splattered up against the roof...

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Dontos
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 1:23 pm
Post subject: Re: M1A2 Turret Blown Off?

- Joe_D


I believe the blow out panels were removed after the blast in order to take all the ammo out prior to recovery. With the turret sustaining that much damage I'm sure that was the easiest way. Looks like she was equipped with the "Drop Rack System" which would make it easy to do. The weapons and all crew equipment has been removed already. But again, it's just a guess.

AH yes!! the ole M1A1HC (Heavy Common). In 92-93, we (3/8 Cav, 1CD) went thru turn in of our 'Storm' Tank (M1A1's) and then 3 Companies drew the 'new' M1A1 HC. This was the first Abrams fielded by the 'Corps'.

The Ammo rack & blowout panels were designed for 'easy' access & removal of the racks. Supposedly, full racks would be dropped in, for a quick reload process. The USMC wanted that and the snorkel mounting for the center grill door.


Dontos,
I remember hearing about the berm incident in Germany. Was at NTC at the time and still dinosour jocking. Made us wonder WTF???? M1's we saw roll and crash didn't loose their turrets. Heard about the missing bolts later.

Joe D


In CAT 89, We ( CAT Team, 4/32 Ar )'owned' Range 117 but didn't choose to do any night training, since CAT was a day run only. 3/8 CAV requested to utilize the range, for night training.

Ever hear anything about breeches snapping bolts, and pinning the gunner?

Don

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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:44 am
Post subject: Re: M1A2 Turret Blown Off?

Yep,
Had a big scare in 86/87 when I was Riley. Seems like some low life contractor had supplied the Army or maybe manufacturer with bogus stamped bolts. The bolts would be marked grade 3, 5, or 8 and actually be grade 1. They distributed a TB showing how to ID both metric and SAE bolt's grade. It also had a guide on how to determine hardness on a suspected bolt. A big concern was recoil mechanisms. Supposedly a Gunner was killed in one incident.

Joe D
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 9:29 pm
Post subject: Re: M1A2 Turret Blown Off?

- Joe_D
Yep,
Had a big scare in 86/87 when I was Riley. Seems like some low life contractor had supplied the Army or maybe manufacturer with bogus stamped bolts. The bolts would be marked grade 3, 5, or 8 and actually be grade 1. They distributed a TB showing how to ID both metric and SAE bolt's grade. It also had a guide on how to determine hardness on a suspected bolt. A big concern was recoil mechanisms. Supposedly a Gunner was killed in one incident.

Joe D


Well, we had one snap. The gunner called 'cease-fire' when the breech pinned him against the CCP, in his seat...!!!!. He was unharmed but had to change his NOMEX....!!

Don

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Geoff_walden
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 3:11 am
Post subject: Re: M1A2 Turret Blown Off?

- Joe_D
Yep,
Had a big scare in 86/87 when I was Riley. Seems like some low life contractor had supplied the Army or maybe manufacturer with bogus stamped bolts. The bolts would be marked grade 3, 5, or 8 and actually be grade 1. They distributed a TB showing how to ID both metric and SAE bolt's grade. It also had a guide on how to determine hardness on a suspected bolt. A big concern was recoil mechanisms. Supposedly a Gunner was killed in one incident.

Joe D


Those bolts were from some supplier in S. Korea. I was working at TACOM HQs at the time, and I recall what a big deal this was - took months to make sure the wholesale supply system was completely purged of the bad bolts. One of the biggest safety issues I remember seeing from the HQs view.

Geoff Walden
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