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M106 for SFC Jeff Button (and others of course)
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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L.Delsing
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:11 pm
Post subject: M106 for SFC Jeff Button (and others of course)

M106 mortar carrier in the Amersfoort Cavalry museum.
AFAIK these verhicles were in the recce battalions of the Dutch cavalry. After 1988 they were no longer in use.

In these recce battalions they created platoons of 4 x M113C&V, 1 x M106A1, 1 x M113A1 and 2 x leopard 1 (this was in 1984 / 85).

Later on they also used the YPR-765 and leopard 2 in these platoons.

This vehicle is painted in the colours of the 104th Reconnaissance Battalion ''Regiment Hussars of Boreel''

Regards,
lesley


Last edited by L.Delsing on Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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L.Delsing
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:12 pm
Post subject: Re: M106 for SFC Jeff Button (and others of course)

And another....
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L.Delsing
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:14 pm
Post subject: Re: M106 for SFC Jeff Button (and others of course)

And the last one, its a bad photo, due to very dark conditions and not much space.
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:15 pm
Post subject: Re: M106 for SFC Jeff Button (and others of course)

Is that a new addition, Lesley? I don't recall that display from my visit there a year or so ago or I surely would have taken a picture of it...and that lowered ramp would have definitely grabbed my attention. I think I got into all the display areas.
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L.Delsing
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:21 pm
Post subject: Re: M106 for SFC Jeff Button (and others of course)

Hello Doug,
It is located in the so-called Landverk building together with the M113 C&V, M24, AMX-13, Leopard 1 and Centurion. This M106 is a long time in the collection of the museum, but the last time I've seen it, it was located in the storage shed.

There were indeed some changes since the last time I visited the museum. The M24 which was inside the Landsverk hall was also one which was before in storage.

Hope this helps,
Regards,
lesley
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:57 pm
Post subject: Re: M106 for SFC Jeff Button (and others of course)

- L.Delsing
Hello Doug,
It is located in the so-called Landverk building together with the M113 C&V, M24, AMX-13, Leopard 1 and Centurion. This M106 is a long time in the collection of the museum, but the last time I've seen it, it was located in the storage shed.

There were indeed some changes since the last time I visited the museum. The M24 which was inside the Landsverk hall was also one which was before in storage.

Hope this helps,
Regards,
lesley


Yep, Shame on me...I was so busy working up the other end of the hall, I ignored it hiding down there behind the AMX...probably because it didn't have the mortar mounted and there are other opportunities "domesticallY".

(And I was falling in love with that magnificent Centurion they have in there!)

My bad...glad you had it covered...now I can save it!

Here,%20I'll%20try%20to%20make%20amends..
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L.Delsing
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 1:54 pm
Post subject: Re: M106 for SFC Jeff Button (and others of course)

I see you have a more powerfull flashlight than me...

This is a link to a site of the battalion from which this tank was. The r/n is KX-43-41 but this is a fake number.
Unfortunately the photos on this site are not high quality.....

www.43tankbataljon.nl/...urion.html
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 2:07 pm
Post subject: Re: M106 for SFC Jeff Button (and others of course)

- L.Delsing
I see you have a more powerfull flashlight than me...

This is a link to a site of the battalion from which this tank was. The r/n is KX-43-41 but this is a fake number.
Unfortunately the photos on this site are not high quality.....

www.43tankbataljon.nl/...urion.html


I took those in natural light, actually. The story I heard from my active duty Dutch escort (who invited me there) who serves there was that this particular vehicle had been seized from a private collector who did not have the proper documentation or authorization for it. Don't know how correct that story is.

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SFC_Jeff_Button
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 7:42 pm
Post subject: Re: M106 for SFC Jeff Button (and others of course)

Yeeeeehaaaaaa!!!!!!! About time we see some "High-Angle H--l" armor on here. Only one small problem. Yes it was called an M106 by many, but that is actually an M125, the 81mm version. The vehicle could actually mount both mortar systems so M106 was what they were all called. But that one is displayed as an M125. I got to drive one of those at Ft Benning back in Oct 1982 when I went through 11C AIT. That empty hole on the right rear fender is where the 81mm base plate would go for ground mount operations, (rare to see the hemp rope still installed around the hole). Those "Tootsie Rolls" in the ammo racks are 81mm. The M125 could carry a basic load of 114 rounds if I remember correctly. The picture looking down through the mortar hatch shows the turn-table facing the wrong direction. The way its sitting, the gun would be firing over it's nose which was a no-no. The lever that is visable, was on the Asst-Gunner side where he could un-lock the turn table for quick traverse. If the turn-table were facing to the rear as it should be, the lever would be on the other side. Under the turn table, there were traverse "blocks" that bolted in place to prevent going past safe limits left and right. However just about every crew I ever saw took these out and eventually lost them. (During lay-outs, a pair would be passed between the gun-squads to pass inspection). I also like the DR-8 / RL-39 (wire spool) mounted to the rear. These would be quickly un-wound as soon as we occupied a position and connected to TA-312's at each gun track and run back to the FDC (Fire Direction Center) so we could start firing missions ASAP. The little rubber flap above the spool is where the wire would be connected. We also hardly ever had the rubber side skirts installed. These were always kept in our Conex's for inventories but they were a pain otherwise. The Personnel heater hoses are in place which was also rare. You were lucky to have a heater at all, let alone one that worked and with hoses. Since we traveled virtually everywhere with the hatch open and the mortar in "travel-lock", we were either always covered in dust or freezing our butts off. Man do I miss being a Mortarman!!!!!!!!!
Enough of my rambling, but please post any and ALL pictures you have of this vehicle, especially of the other side.

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 7:51 pm
Post subject: Re: M106 for SFC Jeff Button (and others of course)

- SFC_Jeff_Button
Yeeeeehaaaaaa!!!!!!!

The lever that is visable, was on the Asst-Gunner side....


I had a good friend who was an asst gunner (11C). 3/36 Inf, 3rd AD. He survived a 'stuck round' explosion that killed a couple of the crew, during dismounted live fire. That was in 87 or 88.


I also like the DR-8 / RL-39 (wire spool) mounted to the rear. These would be quickly un-wound as sson as we occupied a position and connected to TA-312's at each gun track and run back to the FDC (Fire Direction Center) so we could start firning missions ASAP. The little rubber flap above the spool is where the wire would be connected.


Bad memories of walking a hot loop, due to nicks in the WD1.

[/quote]

Regards
Don
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L.Delsing
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 9:39 pm
Post subject: Re: M106 for SFC Jeff Button (and others of course)

[quote="Doug_Kibbey"]
- L.Delsing
I see you have a more powerfull flashlight than me...

This is a link to a site of the battalion from which this tank was. The r/n is KX-43-41 but this is a fake number.
Unfortunately the photos on this site are not high quality.....

www.43tankbataljon.nl/...urion.html


I took those in natural light, actually. The story I heard from my active duty Dutch escort (who invited me there) who serves there was that this particular vehicle had been seized from a private collector who did not have the proper documentation or authorization for it. Don't know how correct that story is.

The one in the Landsverk hall is for 100% sure not the one seized from a civilian, but a original 43 Tkbat Regiment Hussars of Sytzama tank.

The one which was seized from a private collector was in Noordwijkerhout and the registration of that one started with KX-12-.. and it probably went to a depot in Wassenaar.

The other Centurions are ''KX-14-86'' and was first at the gate at the Dumoulin barracks in Soesterberg. Then it was moved to Seedorf, Germany when the 101Tkbat deployed over there. When 101tkbat was disbanded it moved to the museum.

R/n KX-15-10 is property of 42 tkbat
And the last one was KX-15-30 which is since a long time from the museum.

Regards,
Lesley
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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:57 am
Post subject: Re: M106 for SFC Jeff Button (and others of course)

Hi Jeff! Hi Folks!

- SFC_Jeff_Button

The picture looking down through the mortar hatch shows the turn-table facing the wrong direction. The way its sitting, the gun would be firing over it's nose which was a no-no. The lever that is visable, was on the Asst-Gunner side where he could un-lock the turn table for quick traverse. If the turn-table were facing to the rear as it should be, the lever would be on the other side. Under the turn table, there were traverse "blocks" that bolted in place to prevent going past safe limits left and right.


I knew the M106s had traversing blocks, but I am surpised to hear that the M125 also had them. During my time in Cav and Tanks units we only had the battalion mortar platoon which had M106s. During my time with the 1st Bn 30th Inf in Germany, each of the three mech infantry companies' heavy weapons platoons had three M125s while the battalion mortar platoon had four M106s.
During my time with the 11th ACR in Vietnam, the M106s had been exchanged for M125s. I heard that was done because the 81 had a shorter range which worked better during contact actions.
As for the no-no of firing over the front of the vehicle, in Vietnam I saw that done a number of times. I also remember our 11Cs firing flares at night, while on the move as part of a convoy. Bet they didn't teach you that in 11C AIT!

Some of my old history!
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 3:48 am
Post subject: Re: M106 for SFC Jeff Button (and others of course)

- L.Delsing
The other Centurions are ''KX-14-86'' and was first at the gate at the Dumoulin barracks in Soesterberg. Then it was moved to Seedorf, Germany when the 101Tkbat deployed over there. When 101tkbat was disbanded it moved to the museum.

R/n KX-15-10 is property of 42 tkbat
And the last one was KX-15-30 which is since a long time from the museum.

Regards,
Lesley


Lesley,

Do you happen to know which is the history on this one? It was one of 2-3 out back...it being the nicer one. Looks to be the 42tkbat you mentioned.



Regards,
Doug
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SFC_Jeff_Button
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 7:29 pm
Post subject: Re: M106 for SFC Jeff Button (and others of course)

The M125's and M106's could both fire the the 80mm and 4.2in round. They both received the same modifications from M113 configuration. I'm not suprised by the change of 4.2in too 81mm for Mech Ops in Vietnam.
-Range for the 81mm was 70-4,737 meters.
-Range for the 4.2in was 770-6,840 meters.
When you consider that an 81mm can be "humped" if need be and the track can carry 114 rds VS 88 for the 4.2in, I'm not suprised at all in the change for the mortar systems.
I have only worked with 81's in the light Infantry world. However firing over the front of a vehicle was never done, or even trained on. I'm sure for safety reasons. However it could easily be done and I'm sure that any crew worth it's salt, could do it with no problem. Mind you, that's with the 81mm. Todays 120mm has one heck of a blast / concussion associated with it so I don't think I'd try firing over the front unless as a last ditch effort to save my skin against overwhelming odds.
The flares that you saw fired were more than likely M301A3 Illumination rds. They could burn at 500,000 candle power for 1 minute and cover a 1,200 meter area.
A 4.2 in illum rd, (M325A2) could burn for 90 seconds and light a 1,500 meter area. I don't know the candlepower off hand. As far as firing on the move, we practiced it, (simulated) but never did it and I don't know an 11C that has, safety reasons and range control frowns on it.
Any one wanting Mortar info, just let me know. I have just about every manual out there for Mortars.

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
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L.Delsing
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 11:13 pm
Post subject: Re: M106 for SFC Jeff Button (and others of course)

The KX-15-10 is indeed the Centurion from 42nd tkbat in Havelte. It was there for years parked under the sheds together with the Leopard 2s.

On special occasions, such as new commander, the battalions adjudant would drive the tank. He was the one with a Centurion drivers licence.

I didn't see it last week, so maybe they maintained it at Amersfoort and is it now back at Havelte. I can not imagine that 42 give up their Centurion.

The photo is taken several years ago at Havelte during a visit there during master gunner conference.

Regards,
lesley
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