±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: nbrich1
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6596

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 140
Total: 140
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Home
03: Home
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Photo Gallery
11: Community Forums
12: Photo Gallery
13: Community Forums
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: Photo Gallery
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Home
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Photo Gallery
25: Photo Gallery
26: Community Forums
27: Home
28: Photo Gallery
29: Community Forums
30: Community Forums
31: Photo Gallery
32: Downloads
33: Community Forums
34: Photo Gallery
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Photo Gallery
39: Community Forums
40: Community Forums
41: Downloads
42: Photo Gallery
43: Community Forums
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Downloads
47: Community Forums
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Photo Gallery
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Photo Gallery
56: Photo Gallery
57: Photo Gallery
58: Photo Gallery
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Home
62: Community Forums
63: Community Forums
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Photo Gallery
68: Photo Gallery
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Home
77: Community Forums
78: Community Forums
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Community Forums
84: Community Forums
85: Photo Gallery
86: Community Forums
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: Photo Gallery
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Photo Gallery
95: Photo Gallery
96: Community Forums
97: Photo Gallery
98: Photo Gallery
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: Home
104: Community Forums
105: Photo Gallery
106: Photo Gallery
107: Community Forums
108: Photo Gallery
109: Community Forums
110: Community Forums
111: Community Forums
112: Community Forums
113: Home
114: Community Forums
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Community Forums
118: Community Forums
119: Photo Gallery
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: Community Forums
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: Photo Gallery
127: Community Forums
128: Community Forums
129: Photo Gallery
130: Photo Gallery
131: Community Forums
132: Community Forums
133: Community Forums
134: Community Forums
135: Community Forums
136: Community Forums
137: Community Forums
138: Home
139: Community Forums
140: Photo Gallery

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
3.7in AP Shot
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
J.McGillivray
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:23 pm
Post subject: 3.7in AP Shot

Here are some photos of a 3.7in gun being test fired on the ranges in Valcartier Quebec in Feb. 1943. The round being loaded into the gun appears to be painted black indicating that it is AP shot. This appears to be a setup to measure muzzle velocity. Note that the 3.7in AA Gun has a much lower profile when in a horizontal firing position, then the German 8.8cm Flak guns


Back to top
View user's profile
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 1434
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 4:48 am
Post subject: Re: 3.7in AP Shot

Zooming in on the 'loading' image reveals a projectile with a flat nose - its more than likely a proof round used to test the gun after manufacture.

Cool

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
A2_Prius
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 26, 2006
Posts: 112

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:06 am
Post subject: Re: 3.7 in.

Was the 3.7 in. ever employed in the AT role fulfilled by the 8.8 cm.? By '43 the Allies were well acquainted with the latter's "dual role" capability, and it seems to me that the 3.7 in. gun probably had the same potential.
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 22, 2006
Posts: 2516
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:55 am
Post subject: Re: 3.7in AP Shot

No I've read it was specifically not fitted with ground sites when issued to units so that it could not be diverted from it's primary role as an AA gun.

Especially in the desert the role of protecting the base area around the Suez Canal was considered too critical to allow it to be diverted. Between use there and in UK based AA units production could barely keep up with demand

I assume the 17pdr was considered adequate. I also read recently that the 32pdr At gun that was being developed at the end of the war was based on the 3.7" but the towed version of that gun was a monster to move around. I think in the 32 pdr form it was used in the Tortoise (The British vehicle similar to the T28)

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
J.McGillivray
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 2:38 pm
Post subject: Re: 3.7in AP Shot

According to the regimental history of the 2nd Cdn HAA Regt. their 3.7in AA guns were fitted with sights to engage ground targets both by direct and indirect fire. Besides the AA role their training also involved anti-tank drills and artillery shoots.

Looking at the photo closer it dose look like the round is a Flathead. Since these are also solid shot they would be painted black like the AP Shot.

Below%20are%20diagrams%20of%20the%20three%20main%20types%20of%20ammo%20for%20the%203.7in%20AA%20Guns.%20First%20the%203.7in%20AP%20Shot%20Mk%203T,%20the%203.7in%20HE%20Shell%20and%20the%203.7in%20Shrapnel%20shell.%20%20
Back to top
View user's profile
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 1434
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 3:46 pm
Post subject: Re: 3.7 in.

- A2_Prius
Was the 3.7 in. ever employed in the AT role fulfilled by the 8.8 cm.? By '43 the Allies were well acquainted with the latter's "dual role" capability, and it seems to me that the 3.7 in. gun probably had the same potential.


Several books mention that they were used against tanks during the fall of Tobruk - the regiment responsible for the air defence of the harbour held off rommels panzers for several hours until they ran out of ammunition. The ammunition in question was unfuzed HE (normal HE round with transit plug fitted in place of fuze) apparently...

The unit in question IIRC was 68 HAA Regt RA and I think the Peter Cochrane book mentions it.

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
J.McGillivray
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 5:03 pm
Post subject: Re: 3.7in AP Shot

- bsmart
No I've read it was specifically not fitted with ground sites when issued to units so that it could not be diverted from it's primary role as an AA gun.

Especially in the desert the role of protecting the base area around the Suez Canal was considered too critical to allow it to be diverted. Between use there and in UK based AA units production could barely keep up with demand.


There were different models of the 3.7in AA gun going up to the Mark 6. There were both static and mobile types. It sounds like the guns sighted along the Suez Canal may have been static types. The 2Cdn.HAA Regimental states that “…in Africa; the gunners with the 8th Army had also on occasion used their 3.7 guns against enemy columns and concentrations.�

In NWE the 3.7in AA guns were most often used in the field artillery role, especially for counter battery and counter mortar shoots. I have heard one report that the British had used their 3.7in AA guns to snipe at German tanks across the Rhine River in 1945.

Note that 3.7in AA guns were also manufactured in Canada and Australia during the war.
Back to top
View user's profile
David_Clark
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 15, 2006
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 6:48 pm
Post subject: Re: 3.7in AP Shot

Field Marshall Sir Alan Brooke's memoirs include several mentions of visits to demonstrations of 3.7" guns in the anti-tank role. If I remember correctly, the demonstrations mainly took place prior to the introduction of the 17pdr.

Perhaps while the anti-tank potential of the 3.7" gun was evident, the introduction of the 17pdr eliminated the operational requirement for the 3.7" gun to be used against ground targets.

David
Back to top
View user's profile
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 1434
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 2:21 am
Post subject: Re: 3.7in AP Shot

The introduction of the proximity fuze also made them effect against dug-in infantry and they were used in this role in NWE and Burma.

Cool

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
Roger_Lucy
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:11 am
Post subject: Re: 3.7in AP Shot

[quote="J.McGillivray"]Here are some photos of a 3.7in gun being test fired on the ranges in Valcartier Quebec in Feb. 1943. The round being loaded into the gun appears to be painted black indicating that it is AP shot. This appears to be a setup to measure muzzle velocity. Note that the 3.7in AA Gun has a much lower profile when in a horizontal firing position, then the German 8.8cm Flak guns

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
In July 1942 the Canadian Army Technical Development Board commisioned a one-off 3.7 inch SP on a Ram chassis. The gun used was a Mk.II 3.7-inch anti-aircraft gun, on a Mk.III mounting (less its wheels, predictor and other parts below the roller race) made by General Electric in Peterborough Ont. Aside from the standard AA sights it had both a No.9 dial sight for indirect fire and a modified No.33 anti-tank sight.
In trials in the UK the Ram 3.7 inch SP was not terribly effective in either an AA or in-direct fire role, but tests carried out on 23 March, 1943 at the Combined Operations School in Poole, showed it performed very well in a direct fire role.

Paper studies were then carried out to look at the feasibility of mounting either a 17-pounder or a 3.7 inch AA gun on the Ram Sexton chassis. The 3.7 inch was deemed to offer marginally (5mm) superior armour penetration out to 1,000 yards, and significantly better beyond that range. A paper study was also done for a 3.7 inch as an assault gun mounted on an M4 chassis, for use against beach fortifications. Neither of these studies got beyond the drawing board but do show that the 3.7 inch AA gun was seen as potentially ahighly effective direct fire weapon.
For more details on these projects see my "Secret Weapons of the Canadian Army" Service Publications 2006.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 1434
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:50 am
Post subject: Re: 3.7in AP Shot

[quote="Roger_Lucy"]
- J.McGillivray

For more details on these projects see my "Secret Weapons of the Canadian Army" Service Publications 2006.


I'm waiting for the film version Wink

Cool

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
Roger_Lucy
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 10:08 am
Post subject: Re: 3.7in AP Shot

I'm waiting for the film version ;-)

8)[/quote]
I wish! There are lots of references to films being taken of various equipment trials, but all that seems to have survived are a few stills- such as this one of the Ram 3.7 inch SP wading ashore during the 23 March 1943 trials at Poole.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
J.McGillivray
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:16 pm
Post subject: Re: 3.7in AP Shot

In this article in US Field Artillery Magazine from Jan. 1943 there are references to the British 3.7in AA gun being used in the anti-tank role like the German 8.8cm Flak gun.
sill-www.army.mil/FAMA..._25_27.pdf
Source
sill-www.army.mil/FAMA...chives.htm
Back to top
View user's profile
warddw
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:05 pm
Post subject: Re: 3.7in AP Shot

I have a nice example of the 3.7" AP Ammunition in my collection...let me know if you want a picture posted...
Back to top
View user's profile
J.McGillivray
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 2:56 pm
Post subject: Re: 3.7in AP Shot

It would be nice to see a photo of the 3.7in AP shot.
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum