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This one is for OlderTop!
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Roy_A_Lingle
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Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:10 am
Post subject: Re: This one is for OlderTop!

Hi Maple! Hi Folks!
- Maple_Leaf_Eh

Oh brother! I hope you are joking about the Singer-made M1 Garand? This has to be one of the biggest myths in Garand circles. No one except a few gunshow cammobellies has ever seen one, despite the efforts of the best connected collectors in the field.


No joke sir. I carried that rifle around for six weeks. During one week, it went every where I went, including bed. The sling clip openned up and it fell to the ground. It was a M-1 Garand and it said "SINGER" on the receiver.

Everyone around me though that stood for Singer Sewing Machine Corp.

Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
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Doug_Kibbey
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Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:41 am
Post subject: Re: This one is for OlderTop!

Roy,
Is it possible you're recalling another weapon from your checkered past in your distinguished service to our country? I note plenty of documentation of Singer's manufacture of M1911's and Cal. 30 M1 Carbine's (OK...parts for the carbine as subcontracter to Underwood, not manufacturer of record), but they are not listed among the recorded serial number production lots for M1 Garands. Of course, records can be incomplete.

www.nps.gov/spar/uploa...ers1-2.doc

72.14.253.104/search?q...cd=4&gl=us
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oldertop
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 7:57 am
Post subject: Re: This one is for OlderTop!

Yup...Singer made M1911A1s (if you have one of these M1911 you have a collectors item), but production records don't show any production of M1s by Singer, by the way my first issued M1 in Boot Camp (Sept 1960) was made by International Harvester..the big joke was my rifle was made by a "tractor " company.
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piney
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Location: Republic of Southern New Jersey
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:55 am
Post subject: Re: This one is for OlderTop!

Hi Doug

just to make you jealous, there is a short Garand on display at Aberdeen. I know that over the years various civilian chop jobs have been advertised as "Tanker" Garands but the real deal was this. The Army put together a small run to test in Pacific jungle fighting and decided that it wasn't worth the effort and recalled them for rebuild. One of my friends was the commander of one of the infantry companies testing them and by some strange occurence Mr. Green his never made it back . I had the privilege of running a few clips through it.

Jeff Lewis


Last edited by piney on Wed Oct 17, 2007 12:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:02 am
Post subject: Re: This one is for OlderTop!

Jeff,
You and Bob in particular might find this interesting....

www.scott-duff.com/t26.htm

D.
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piney
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:55 am
Post subject: Re: This one is for OlderTop!

Well it's nice to know I was firing a unigue historic relic. recoil didn't seem much heavier but the muzzle blast was hellacious and the front sight assembly kept shifting on it's reverse dovetail so it wouldn't keep it's zero,
Art ( the owner, a lovely old school gentlemen, who has since gone west) said that no matter how they tried to stake them down they moved constantly and that was one of the big factors in recalling them.

Jeff Lewis
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Roy_A_Lingle
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Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:25 pm
Post subject: Re: This one is for OlderTop!

Hi Doug! Hi Folks!

- Doug_Kibbey
Roy,
Is it possible you're recalling another weapon from your checkered past in your distinguished service to our country? I note plenty of documentation of Singer's manufacture of M1911's and Cal. 30 M1 Carbine's (OK...parts for the carbine as subcontracter to Underwood, not manufacturer of record), but they are not listed among the recorded serial number production lots for M1 Garands. Of course, records can be incomplete.

www.nps.gov/spar/uploa...ers1-2.doc

72.14.253.104/search?q...&gl=us


I HERE BY CLAIM THOSE RECORDS TO BE """INCOMPLETE""""!!!!!! Rolling Eyes Evil or Very Mad Rolling Eyes Evil or Very Mad Rolling Eyes Evil or Very Mad Rolling Eyes Evil or Very Mad Razz

Now Doug, with those two sets of outstanding records, you have gone and made me feel bad. Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad

I don't think it was some where else. That was the only time I was ever issued a M1 Garand. I was never issued a M1 carbine. I don't think I have ever layed hands one of those. AFAIK, the Marines where not using the M1 carbine during my time 1964 to 1968.

Hey, OlderTop! Do you remember M-1 carbines during your time in the Corps?

All my other weapons during that time were M-14s.

When I switched over to the Army, I had a M-79 and M-1911A1 for a few months until the unit switched to the M-16. I was stationed in Berlin for two months and during that time, the unit Scout Platoon, HHC, 4th Bn, 18th Inf had M-14s. During my time with G Troop, 2nd Sqdn, 11th ACR, I was issued a M-16/M-203 and had picked up a M-3 sub-machine gun from somewhere. After that, it was M-16s or M-16/M-203s until I retired. I sure do wish I that somehow I could remember or had kept a list of my weapon's serial numbers over the years. Sad

That was all the way back during the late summer and early fall of 1964. During my time, I don't remember anything special or outstanding about any of the other weapons I carried.

There are two things that sticks in my mine about THAT rifle.

One, it said "Singer" on the receiver. Confused
Two, it would only fire three rounds. On ejecting the third case, it would also eject the clip and all remaining rounds. Surprised

We were told that the USMC was using M1s in ITR because they were old, there was lots of ammo which didn't need to be replaced, and if we broke one, the Corps didn't have to spend money repairing it. Under those conditions of use, there is almost no way it could have survived and been passed on to a none military source of ex-military fire arms.

I guess you folks wiil just have to chalk this war story up to an old vet's faulty memory.

Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
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Doug_Kibbey
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Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:33 pm
Post subject: Re: This one is for OlderTop!

- Roy_A_Lingle

I guess you folks wiil just have to chalk this war story up to an old vet's faulty memory.

Sgt, Scouts Out!


I think the obvious thing to do here, Roy, is to blame it on your prior service in the Marine Corps. Mr. Green
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oldertop
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:29 pm
Post subject: Re: This one is for OlderTop!

No carbines during my time, I was issued a M1 rifle in boot camp and it followed me for two years, left it in the far east and picked up a re-issue in 62 (Barstow CA), handed it in in late 63 for a M14. I guess the Corps felt that marine no longer had a love afair with their rifle after 1963 and you picked up a new rifle at each of your commands...One of the things that perplexed (thats a 50 cents word) was how no-brainer the U.S. military could be when it came to the simple things of life..say like the rifle sling! For years the U.S. used a leather sling and then they replaced it a woven web type which was O.K. to a point, along with the web sling they had to come up with that @#$#@#$%%#$$#@ metal keeper, you know the one, the one that would releases with out warning and your rilfe hit the deck front sight first, the one you had to tape it up to keep it quiet so the bad guys couldn't hear you, then came the new plastic web sling ..with two buckel like things that never live up to the job of keeping the sling on the M16 Razz
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Doug_Kibbey
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Posts: 4631
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:53 pm
Post subject: Re: This one is for OlderTop!

- oldertop
One of the things that perplexed (thats a 50 cents word) was how no-brainer the U.S. military could be when it came to the simple things of life..say like the rifle sling! For years the U.S. used a leather sling and then they replaced it a woven web type which was O.K. to a point, along with the web sling they had to come up with that @#$#@#$%%#$$#@ metal keeper, you know the one, the one that would releases with out warning and your rilfe hit the deck front sight first, the one you had to tape it up to keep it quiet so the bad guys couldn't hear you, then came the new plastic web sling ..with two buckel like things that never live up to the job of keeping the sling on the M16 Razz


Leather would have made sense, but the canvas wasn't so bad. I did secure the metal keeper when I was a Scout, but then I had an M203 which had the swivel mounted on the side, a whole different dealy-bob from the standard M16 swivel (or sometimes I dispensed with the sling altogether, especially at night). On my "straight" M16, I ignored the forward swivel (and crimped the bejeezus out of it with a pair of pliers to keep it silent for our dismounts) and mounted to the sight post, like this. I'm a lefty, so it didn't interfere with either my selector switch operation or the ejection port door. Never met those plastic web things you mention, but I'd have s*it-canned it, whatever it is.
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