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A Schmalturm for the Patton Panther II?
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Rikard_Hufschmied
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 2:28 am
Post subject: A Schmalturm for the Patton Panther II?

Picture a non-ballistic commercial steel Panther II Schmalturm turret with a commercial steel gun (able to fire 75mm blanks), what would be the cost? It would sure look the part!

A template (though trashed) is available at Bovington, what are you waiting for? Wink

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Dontos
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 2:38 am
Post subject: Re: A Schmalturm for the Patton Panther II?

- Rikard_Hufschmied
Picture a non-ballistic commercial steel Panther II Schmalturm turret with a commercial steel gun (able to fire 75mm blanks), what would be the cost? It would sure look the part!

A template (though trashed) is available at Bovington, what are you waiting for? Wink


I understand the interest but why throw money into a non-production factory hybred, when a combat 'vet' Panther 'G' sits under a tarp rusting away....

No history in the Panther II, unless you count its capture. However an actual combat experienced 'surviving' tank who has a story is forgotten.

Pity
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the_shadock
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 3:23 am
Post subject: Re: A Schmalturm for the Patton Panther II?

I agree with Don. By the way Rik, I sent you a private message that you didn't read yet Wink

Pierre-Olivier

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Rikard_Hufschmied
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 4:21 am
Post subject: Re: A Schmalturm for the Patton Panther II?

- Dontos
- Rikard_Hufschmied
Picture a non-ballistic commercial steel Panther II Schmalturm turret with a commercial steel gun (able to fire 75mm blanks), what would be the cost? It would sure look the part!

A template (though trashed) is available at Bovington, what are you waiting for? Wink


I understand the interest but why throw money into a non-production factory hybred, when a combat 'vet' Panther 'G' sits under a tarp rusting away....

No history in the Panther II, unless you count its capture. However an actual combat experienced 'surviving' tank who has a story is forgotten.

Pity


I agree as well, for some reason I always "forget" about the G that you have, it might be because of its sad condition. It certainly deserves a better faith than rustin' away under a tarp.

I revise my specification from "non-ballistic commercial steel" to "fiberglass/epoxy":)

That G turret on the Panther II is one of only two surviving with the mantlet lower "lip" and could be a display on its own.

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Rikard_Hufschmied
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 4:22 am
Post subject: Re: A Schmalturm for the Patton Panther II?

- the_shadock
I agree with Don. By the way Rik, I sent you a private message that you didn't read yet Wink

Pierre-Olivier


Noted, read, will get back to you.

/Rik

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mike_Duplessis
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 6:19 am
Post subject: Re: A Schmalturm for the Patton Panther II?

Schmalturm and Panther II actually have nothing to do with eachother, except in the fevered imaginations of one or two kit makers. Panther II was pre-Panther G, a distant cousin of Tiger II. I think schmalturm was slated for Panther F, which was already on the assembly lines at war's end.
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:25 pm
Post subject: Re: A Schmalturm for the Patton Panther II?

- Rikard_Hufschmied

That G turret on the Panther II is one of only two surviving with the mantlet lower "lip" and could be a display on its own.


Question - What do you mean by a lip? Do you mean the squared off lower mantlet that was done to keep incoming rounds from glancing down into the hull top?

If so I didn't realise it was that rare. Half the panthers I see on a regular basis have it Mr. Green I'm of course talking about the Aberdeen Panthers.

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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:28 pm
Post subject: Re: A Schmalturm for the Patton Panther II?

- bsmart
Half the panthers I see on a regular basis have it Mr. Green I'm of course talking about the Aberdeen Panthers.


Razz
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:41 pm
Post subject: Re: A Schmalturm for the Patton Panther II?

- Rikard_Hufschmied
- Dontos

I understand the interest but why throw money into a non-production factory hybred, when a combat 'vet' Panther 'G' sits under a tarp rusting away....

No history in the Panther II, unless you count its capture. However an actual combat experienced 'surviving' tank who has a story is forgotten.

Pity


I agree as well, for some reason I always "forget" about the G that you have, it might be because of its sad condition. It certainly deserves a better faith than rustin' away under a tarp.

I revise my specification from "non-ballistic commercial steel" to "fiberglass/epoxy":)

That G turret on the Panther II is one of only two surviving with the mantlet lower "lip" and could be a display on its own.





What LIP are we talking about??

Don
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piney
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 9:12 pm
Post subject: Re: A Schmalturm for the Patton Panther II?

Hi Don

The bottom of the mantlet is shaped differently on the earlier turrets, see below


it was reinforced and reshaped to eliminate a shot trap as Bob said HTH

Jeff Lewsi
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 12:28 am
Post subject: Re: A Schmalturm for the Patton Panther II?



I see. I had heard of the shot trap, but wasn't aware of the updated turret design.

Don
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 1:15 am
Post subject: Re: A Schmalturm for the Patton Panther II?

At Aberdeen the two Panthers sit side by side. The 'improvements' between early and late are obvious (at least after I point them out on tours Wink ) The mantlet chin and the drivers periscope instead of a vision port in the glacias are two obvious 'product improvements' in the Panthers short existence.

So Rikard the turret at Knox and the one at Aberdeen are the only two known examples of this feature? I hadn't noticed but sort of assumed that some of the Panthers assembled by the REME and now at Bovington had it. After all they were the last Panthers built.

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Rikard_Hufschmied
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 1:34 am
Post subject: Re: A Schmalturm for the Patton Panther II?

- bsmart
At Aberdeen the two Panthers sit side by side. The 'improvements' between early and late are obvious (at least after I point them out on tours Wink ) The mantlet chin and the drivers periscope instead of a vision port in the glacias are two obvious 'product improvements' in the Panthers short existence.

So Rikard the turret at Knox and the one at Aberdeen are the only two known examples of this feature? I hadn't noticed but sort of assumed that some of the Panthers assembled by the REME and now at Bovington had it. After all they were the last Panthers built.


Yes, the Panther G at Aberdeen and the G turret on the Panther II hull at Patton are the only two known survivors with the mantlet chin (better word than lip). As far as I know none of the REME bulit G:s, strangely enough, had the new mantlet. So you have a pair of unique turrets there for sure.

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Frustra Nate Vive Devincere
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 2:04 am
Post subject: Re: A Schmalturm for the Patton Panther II?



The forgotten Panther...

Don
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:16 am
Post subject: Re: A Schmalturm for the Patton Panther II?

- Rikard_Hufschmied
- bsmart
At Aberdeen the two Panthers sit side by side. The 'improvements' between early and late are obvious (at least after I point them out on tours Wink ) The mantlet chin and the drivers periscope instead of a vision port in the glacias are two obvious 'product improvements' in the Panthers short existence.

So Rikard the turret at Knox and the one at Aberdeen are the only two known examples of this feature? I hadn't noticed but sort of assumed that some of the Panthers assembled by the REME and now at Bovington had it. After all they were the last Panthers built.


Yes, the Panther G at Aberdeen and the G turret on the Panther II hull at Patton are the only two known survivors with the mantlet chin (better word than lip). As far as I know none of the REME bulit G:s, strangely enough, had the new mantlet. So you have a pair of unique turrets there for sure.


Boy, the things you take for granted Rolling Eyes

By the way I will be doing my Fall Urbanna High School field trip on Monday 29 Oct at Aberdeen. This is the 4th or 5th year for the group. They teach a class in WWII in both the fall and spring semester and get 15-20 students each semester. This group will get to see the Elefant since it has been moved to the refurb shop.

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