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3d CAV 4.2" Mortar
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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MarkHolloway
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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 3:30 pm
Post subject: 3d CAV 4.2" Mortar

Look where they have their 3d Cav patch!


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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 3:35 pm
Post subject: Re: 3d CAV 4.2" Mortar

Looks like their left shoulder is already occupied with a division level patch, but I've never seen it done thataway before on "official" fatigues. I wonder just how "authorized" that was.
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MarkHolloway
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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 4:37 pm
Post subject: Re: 3d CAV 4.2" Mortar

Their shoulder patch is 7th Army.


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Dontos
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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 4:39 pm
Post subject: Re: 3d CAV 4.2" Mortar

As far as I know, Only the 2nd AD was authorized to have wear their patch in such a manner.

Something about George Patton (jr) displaying the unit patch over the soldiers heart, to 'show the love' of the unit.....or something like that.... Rolling Eyes

I remember hearing many rumors about a total disconnect with reality.....

A story I heard referred to the Ft Hood testing of the Scout Recon 'Three-wheeler',......Supposedly 'JR' required a 3 or 4 ft orange whip antenna with Orange triangular flag be mounted (and visible at all times..!!!).....

....so that THE SCOUT RECON test bikes were visible (could be seen!!) at all times!? Shocked (WTF 'Jr'!!!) Confused Rolling Eyes Mr. Green

Gee....wonder why 'we' didn't buy that one.... Mr. Green

'At least thats what I heard....'
Don
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 5:38 pm
Post subject: Re: 3d CAV 4.2" Mortar

Thanks Mark, I couldn't quite make that out, even enlarged.

Don, are you thinking of "Junior" ("Old Blood and Guts") or G.S.P. the Third, who was a Colonel of the 11th Cav in Vietnam and Commandant of the Armor School when I was at Knox?

I've never seen Regimental patches worn over the breast except in the highly informal way stuff was worn in Cav units in Vietnam, especially Air Cav.
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 7:06 pm
Post subject: Re: 3d CAV 4.2" Mortar

'Jr' would be GSP 3.

When I transferred to 'Hood' in 92, I was assigned to 1/67 Ar, after 2nd AD's 'Tiger Bde' became 1st CAV's 'Grey Wolf' 3rd Bde. Many of the Bdes members (having been with 2AD during DS) still had the 'Hell on Wheels' on there BDU's, if not the patch 'Shadow' above the left breast pocket.

All were very proud of being 2AD and were still a bit frustrated at having to swap patches. Being my 2nd active duty assingment to 'Hood', I was keenly aware of the bitter rivalry between 1CD & 2 AD.

In 92/93 when 5th ID moved into Hood from Ft Polk, and for a short period of time was reflagged as 2AD, that bitterness was redirected by the 'real' 2AD personnel towards the 'Fort Puke Scum'.....

The patch over the heart tradition continued 'down the street'. That is,....until the 5ID/2AD transplants, were REDESIGNATED as 4th ID.

3rd Bde (1CD) units, did a REDES 'Tap-dance' to realign the Bde/Division/Corps in 93/94. It went something like this...

3rd BDE, 1CD:
1/67 Armor became 3/8 CAV
1/41 Inf Bn (??) became 1/9 CAV
3/67 Armor moved back down the street to 2AD
4/6 Inf (former 5th ID transplants & 'Heros' of Panama in 89) became 2/7 CAV

On the 2AD(transplanted 5ID) side, I'm a bit foggy on, although I do know 3/70 Ar (former 5ID) was REFLAGGED as 1/67 Ar ....

Confused??

Talk about a massive 'shell game'.... BTW...1st Cav CG at the time... Gen 'BOMB THE F.R.Y. INTO THE STONE AGE' Clark who was followed by Gen 'We don't need no stinking Tanks' Shinseki.. Evil or Very Mad

Both proved to be 'Clinton Pawns', at least in my mind.... Rolling Eyes

'Hit A nerve on that one..."
Don
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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 8:07 pm
Post subject: Re: 3d CAV 4.2" Mortar

Hi Folks!

- Doug_Kibbey

Looks like their left shoulder is already occupied with a division level patch, but I've never seen it done thataway before on "official" fatigues. I wonder just how "authorized" that was.


That carrier dates the photo sometime prior to Vietnam. Prior to main Army units deploying to Vietnam, the lowest authorized patch worn on Army uniforms was a division or higher patch. That is why those troops have 7th Army patchs on their shoulders. As for the 3rd ACR patch on the front of the fatigues, it was common for combat units smaller that Division level to display a patch of sometype like they are doing. Prior to the 11th ACR's deployment to Vietnam, the Blackhorse patch was NOT an offical patch for wear on the uniform. When the 11th first arrived, they wore the 2nd Field Force patch. As time passed, it became common for the 11th and the 173rd Airborne Bde to wear un-offical shoulder patchs in part because both units where always tranfering back and forth between 1st and 2nd Field Forces. Sometime around mid-war, the Army changed the rules and approved seperated Brigdes and Regiments adopting their own patchs for offical wear on the shoulder of the uniforms.

Old history spot report!
Sgt, Scouts Out!

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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 8:18 pm
Post subject: Re: 3d CAV 4.2" Mortar

Hi Doug! Hi Folks!

- Doug_Kibbey

Don, are you thinking of "Junior" ("Old Blood and Guts") or G.S.P. the Third, who was a Colonel of the 11th Cav in Vietnam and Commandant of the Armor School when I was at Knox?


Don is talking about "Old Blood and Guts". Not sure if he was the first commander of the 2nd AD or not, but it was doing his time in the late 1930 when he commanded the 2nd AD that he order the division patch be worned on the front of the field uniform. Over the years, some division commanders would order the patch moved back to the shoulder per army regs and then another commander would come along and order it back on the front of the field uniform.

As far as I know, Don is correct that the 2nd AD was the ONLY DIVISION that worn the division patch on the front of the field uniform.

Old history spot report!
Sgt, Scouts out!

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General G.S. Patton Jr.
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SFC_Jeff_Button
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 5:03 am
Post subject: Re: 3d CAV 4.2" Mortar

Funny how some things never really change. Our layouts behind our M106's looked very much the same at least as far as the equipment / track BII. The radios, bino's and some other small items are different. Looking inside the track, it appears there are ammo racks on both sides for for storage of WP and Illum rounds. Our tracks kept the 4.2 rounds only beside the radio mount, (left side as you look in). All the HE rounds were kept on their sides in the racks.
Any idea where and when this was taken? Where was this picture found?

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MarkHolloway
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 7:32 am
Post subject: Re: 3d CAV 4.2" Mortar

I found it at the USAREUR web site.

www.usarmygermany.com/

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