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Seen at Boatwright, Fort Knox
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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MarkHolloway
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 8:11 am
Post subject: Re: Seen at Boatwright, Fort Knox

Too bad they couldn't have somehow made them 'legal' for the sake of the museum. Twisted Evil

I think I'll start referring to Boatwright as the 'Ropkey Annex'.

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JimWeb
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 2:23 pm
Post subject: Re: Seen at Boatwright, Fort Knox

- Garry_Redmon
All came from the Ropkey Museum in Indiana. Apparently they weren't supposed to be there . . . legally. There are no plans right now to do anything with them since there isn't any better storage at Richardson. They'll probably eventually go to Benning as well.


Rumours persist of some more seizures pending from private collections/museums....

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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 4:28 pm
Post subject: Re: Seen at Boatwright, Fort Knox

Yep,

And don't even think all will go to Knox when confiscated. I'm sure this was a practical location being it's relatively close by and a Federal installation. Won't be too long before some of the stuff in front of closed VFW/ALP Posts show up unless the local Government is willing to sign for them.

Roy,

Makes me wonder about a certain vehicle's fate right now. Especially the current status She's in.

Joe D
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 4:42 pm
Post subject: Re: Seen at Boatwright, Fort Knox

I was a little surprised to see these particular items confiscated since TACOM had them (along with an M114 & M56 Scorpion, but oddly no howitzer) listed as having been officially donated to Ropkey... I almost wonder if these items were recovered "in spite" over the more muddled legal status of the M1917... I've e-mailed my M1917 contact to see what he may know...

Neil
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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 8:24 pm
Post subject: Re: Seen at Boatwright, Fort Knox

Neil,

Unless it's self propelled, M110, M109, M53 etc, TACOM is not responsible for them. Guns without motors don't fall under "Tank or Automotive" , not even sure if they are tracked by anyone once disposed of once they are de-milled.

Wonder if your right on that "Spite" issue. Will be real interesting how this works out and the precedence it sets.

Joe D
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 3:44 am
Post subject: Re: Seen at Boatwright, Fort Knox

Joe,
Actually... In this particular case, TACOM has responsibility for all US Army donated items - right down to M1 Garand rifles. They're all in the TACOM Central Registry of donated items...

Neil
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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 6:01 am
Post subject: Re: Seen at Boatwright, Fort Knox

I guess it makes sense to one agency in charge of everything donated.

Joe D
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TrevorLarkum
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 7:32 am
Post subject: Re: Seen at Boatwright, Fort Knox

Most people don't usually ask for their donations back later! That sounds like a loan, which isn't a donation.

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bsmart
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:12 am
Post subject: Re: Seen at Boatwright, Fort Knox

I believ technically they were loans. The U.S. Government very often would supply equipment to various municipal and state organizations but it is all technically as a loan with the U.S. Government retaining title. I know the Maryland State Police used to have a LARC (I think it was a LARC and not a BARC) at one of the Barracks near the Chesepeake bay that they would use for flood recues. The Frederick County Sherrif had an M20 armored car that when they went to dispose of found out they didn't own it, that it was still owned by the U.S. Army. It is now at Aberdeen awaiting refurb (I've been told it is slated to go to the planned Museum of the U.S. Army)

I think over the years some caretakers of loaned equipment forgot that it was only a loan and when they no longer wanted it disposed of it as they saw fit. In some cases I believe it was all done in good faith, in others I'm not so sure. Then there were people or groups that acquired 'surplus' equipment through other means, some legitimatly, that are now caught up in a 'We may have sold it to you but we shouldn't have and now we are taking it back if you can't prove you bought it legally in the first place (and sometimes even if you can)'

just my views of a messy situation

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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:26 am
Post subject: Re: Seen at Boatwright, Fort Knox

Right, they are loans, even if it is called the US Army Donation Program or some such... The distinction is that its always owned by the US Government, even if it has been "donated"/loaned...

Neil
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binder001
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 1:29 pm
Post subject: Re: Seen at Boatwright, Fort Knox

- Neil_Baumgardner
Joe, Actually... In this particular case, TACOM has responsibility for all US Army donated items - right down to M1 Garand rifles. They're all in the TACOM Central Registry of donated items... Neil


That's interesting. I thought the "central agency" responsible was the Center for Military History. I was told once that CMH is the technical owner of all the stuff in parks, museums and VFWs. I'm sure that responsibility changes periodically, after all, it's the government! The funny kicker is that the CMH really doesn't know all the stuff that's out there. We've seen the corrections and errors in comparing the TACOM information versus our scouting of the real stuff. For years the Army just didn't really care where their tanks and cannons went. The Navy, on the other hand, have always been real pains about "everything we ever had is still ours". As soon as anyone recovers a wrecked Navy aircraft they are soon visited and the aircraft or wreckage is confiscate, even in the USN has no plans for it.

I hadn't hed about a disagreement between the Ropkey Museum and the Army. That's too bad.

Gary
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TrevorLarkum
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:31 am
Post subject: Re: Seen at Boatwright, Fort Knox

- bsmart
I believ technically they were loans. The U.S. Government very often would supply equipment to various municipal and state organizations but it is all technically as a loan with the U.S. Government retaining title. I know the Maryland State Police used to have a LARC (I think it was a LARC and not a BARC) at one of the Barracks near the Chesepeake bay that they would use for flood recues. The Frederick County Sherrif had an M20 armored car that when they went to dispose of found out they didn't own it, that it was still owned by the U.S. Army. It is now at Aberdeen awaiting refurb (I've been told it is slated to go to the planned Museum of the U.S. Army)

I think over the years some caretakers of loaned equipment forgot that it was only a loan and when they no longer wanted it disposed of it as they saw fit. In some cases I believe it was all done in good faith, in others I'm not so sure. Then there were people or groups that acquired 'surplus' equipment through other means, some legitimatly, that are now caught up in a 'We may have sold it to you but we shouldn't have and now we are taking it back if you can't prove you bought it legally in the first place (and sometimes even if you can)'

just my views of a messy situation


Understood. Not a nice situation to be stuck in the middle of. I don't think we have a similar situation here - the Army just doesn't give stuff away, but regularly sells it off in big auctions. It's a tender system so you can sometimes get good prices (£3k for a Chieftain, etc.).

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Geoff_walden
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:13 am
Post subject: Re: Seen at Boatwright, Fort Knox

These ex-Ropkey vehicles have been moved to storage at Richardson Tank Park. Perhaps a museum volunteer can provide more info. Some of the folks at Richardson can get a little bent out of shape when they see someone they don't know walk in there.

Geoff Walden
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Seen at Boatwright, Fort Knox

- Geoff_walden
These ex-Ropkey vehicles have been moved to storage at Richardson Tank Park. Perhaps a museum volunteer can provide more info. Some of the folks at Richardson can get a little bent out of shape when they see someone they don't know walk in there.

Geoff Walden


Mr. Green
Cool

There is a 'workday' tomorrow. I have unfortunately gone MIA for the past several events/work days, I am committed to putting in some hours tomorrow. Gotta try to sort out some data conflicts, collect some RN & SN info, snap some pics(here & there) to actually update my 'Armored Ghosts' webpages, AND See what events & activities are in the works, for the remainder of the year.

Stay tuned,..... Wink
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TrevorLarkum
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 4:46 pm
Post subject: Re: Seen at Boatwright, Fort Knox

Geoff,

I have used your photo's from the start of this thread here:

Unique ID 1326: Ropkey/Fort Knox M47

Unique ID 1327: Ropkey/Fort Knox/Benning M42

Let me know if it's a problem. (Also sent by PM as Geoff hasn't been on the forum for a few months).

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