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Trying to Date Photo
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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MarkHolloway
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 1:49 am
Post subject: Trying to Date Photo

Found this on Flickr. Notice there is no 'SPEARHEAD' tab and his brass has a WW1 tank. Any idears?
BIG PICTURE: farm4.static.flickr.co...33ba_b.jpg

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Dontos
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 4:46 am
Post subject: Re: Trying to Date Photo

The key is the awards worn. Appears to have a 'v' device on one.

Gen M. Rose coined the 'Spearhead' label as I recall.

Perhaps 1945 with conclusion of hostilities?

any thoughts?

Don
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MarkHolloway
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 4:57 am
Post subject: Re: Trying to Date Photo

I was wondering when they used that branch insignia?

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the_shadock
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 5:59 am
Post subject: Re: Trying to Date Photo

It seems to me that the photo is dating from the late 40s or 50s. I have a similar "Chino" shirt which is a Model 1948 and dated from 1951.. I think that the WW2 Chino shirt has a different pattern, but this needs to be verified.

P-O

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SHAWN
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 6:48 am
Post subject: Re: Trying to Date Photo

yes, all on the right track. don is looking at the ribbons, i am looking at the uniform itself... it is post 1945 (like p-o mentioned). looks like the cotton khaki shade 1 shirt with cotton-mohair necktie. the color of the necktie wasnt changed to black until sept. 1956. also along don's notes, the enlisted collar insignia wasnt added to the uniform until 1946. (based on the doolittle board inspired 1946 pattern shirt) all post war shirts encorporated officer shirt features, that is why he is an EM with a shirt that has sholder loops.
all that said, i still cant answer your Q mark, dont know why his tab has a WW1 tank...
shawn
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MarkHolloway
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 7:23 am
Post subject: Re: Trying to Date Photo

I read at another site that the current branch insignia was authorized in 1950.

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MarkHolloway
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 7:29 am
Post subject: Re: Trying to Date Photo

Just read at 3ad.com that the spearhead tab was added in Sept '44.

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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:54 am
Post subject: Re: Trying to Date Photo

Mark,

The Tab may have been added but I don't think it was incorporated as DA authorized till much later. The picture has to be post hostilities because he's wearing an Army of Occupation Medal, Germany as his lowest award, and that wasn't authorized until 1946. After checking the others against the DA site I think the others listed in order from the Occupation medals are, WWII Victory Medal, European/African/Middle Eastern Campaign Medal, and the American Campaign Medal. I cannot figure out what His highest ribbon is unless it's some kind of unit award. Wish the picture was larger.

Joe D
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tanker2010
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 4:33 pm
Post subject: Re: Trying to Date Photo

- Joe_D
I cannot figure out what His highest ribbon is unless it's some kind of unit award. Wish the picture was larger.


Good Conduct Ribbion.
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 4:48 pm
Post subject: Re: Trying to Date Photo



A new insignia for the Armored Forces was authorized by War Department Circular 56, dated 25 Feb 42. This insignia was the side-view of the Mark VIII Tank used in World War I. The insignia was continued in use until the Armor Branch was established in Feb 51. The new insignia was the result of the Army Reorganization Act of 1950 as announced in Army Bulletin No. 9. The Armored Forces and Cavalry were combined into a single branch called Armor. The Armored Forces insignia was no longer used; however, the Cavalry was continued in use as a collar insignia for personnel assigned to Cavalry Units.

Source: www.tioh.hqda.pentagon...0Armor.htm

Don
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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:26 am
Post subject: Re: Trying to Date Photo

Tanker 2010 wrote:

Good Conduct Ribbion


You know, I thought that but it just didn't seem dark enough on the edges. I Agree though, it's a GCM.

Funny family story on the GCM. My Dad was often asked if he was prior service Army near the end of his 29 years because he had one. He would reply "That's what we got before the Air Force created their own." Smile

Joe D
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TrevorLarkum
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:23 am
Post subject: Re: Trying to Date Photo

- Dontos


A new insignia for the Armored Forces was authorized by War Department Circular 56, dated 25 Feb 42. This insignia was the side-view of the Mark VIII Tank used in World War I. The insignia was continued in use until the Armor Branch was established in Feb 51. The new insignia was the result of the Army Reorganization Act of 1950 as announced in Army Bulletin No. 9. The Armored Forces and Cavalry were combined into a single branch called Armor. The Armored Forces insignia was no longer used; however, the Cavalry was continued in use as a collar insignia for personnel assigned to Cavalry Units.

Source: www.tioh.hqda.pentagon...0Armor.htm

Don


I guess that answers one question. Only to pose another - why isn't that a picture of the distinctive Anglo-American Mark VIII then? It's clearly an earlier British rhomboidal tank, perhaps a Mark V (because US troops used Mark Vs?).

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