±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: JerryH
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6595

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 365
Total: 365
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Community Forums
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Photo Gallery
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: Community Forums
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Downloads
20: Community Forums
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: Community Forums
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Home
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Community Forums
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Community Forums
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: Photo Gallery
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Your Account
54: Downloads
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: Community Forums
58: Community Forums
59: Downloads
60: Community Forums
61: Community Forums
62: Community Forums
63: Community Forums
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: Photo Gallery
67: Community Forums
68: Community Forums
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Community Forums
78: Community Forums
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Photo Gallery
83: Community Forums
84: Photo Gallery
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Photo Gallery
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Community Forums
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Photo Gallery
106: Community Forums
107: Community Forums
108: Community Forums
109: Community Forums
110: Downloads
111: Community Forums
112: Community Forums
113: Community Forums
114: Community Forums
115: Community Forums
116: Photo Gallery
117: Photo Gallery
118: Community Forums
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Photo Gallery
122: Home
123: Community Forums
124: Downloads
125: Community Forums
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Community Forums
129: Downloads
130: Community Forums
131: Community Forums
132: Community Forums
133: Community Forums
134: Community Forums
135: Community Forums
136: Downloads
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Community Forums
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: Community Forums
143: Community Forums
144: Community Forums
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Photo Gallery
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Community Forums
153: Photo Gallery
154: Community Forums
155: Community Forums
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: Photo Gallery
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: Community Forums
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: Community Forums
171: Community Forums
172: Community Forums
173: Community Forums
174: Community Forums
175: Community Forums
176: Community Forums
177: Community Forums
178: Community Forums
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: Photo Gallery
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: Community Forums
188: Community Forums
189: Home
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Community Forums
194: Community Forums
195: Community Forums
196: Community Forums
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: Community Forums
204: Home
205: Community Forums
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Community Forums
210: Community Forums
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: Community Forums
215: Community Forums
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Photo Gallery
219: Community Forums
220: Downloads
221: Photo Gallery
222: Community Forums
223: Photo Gallery
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Community Forums
227: Community Forums
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: Community Forums
232: Community Forums
233: Community Forums
234: Community Forums
235: Community Forums
236: Search and Rescue
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: Community Forums
240: Community Forums
241: Community Forums
242: Community Forums
243: Community Forums
244: Community Forums
245: Community Forums
246: Community Forums
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: Community Forums
251: Community Forums
252: Community Forums
253: Community Forums
254: Downloads
255: Community Forums
256: Community Forums
257: Community Forums
258: Community Forums
259: Community Forums
260: Community Forums
261: Photo Gallery
262: Community Forums
263: Community Forums
264: Photo Gallery
265: Community Forums
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: Community Forums
269: Community Forums
270: Community Forums
271: News
272: Community Forums
273: Community Forums
274: Photo Gallery
275: Community Forums
276: Community Forums
277: Community Forums
278: Community Forums
279: Downloads
280: Community Forums
281: Community Forums
282: Community Forums
283: Community Forums
284: Community Forums
285: Home
286: Community Forums
287: Community Forums
288: Community Forums
289: Community Forums
290: Community Forums
291: Photo Gallery
292: Community Forums
293: Community Forums
294: Community Forums
295: Community Forums
296: Community Forums
297: Community Forums
298: Community Forums
299: Community Forums
300: Community Forums
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums
303: Downloads
304: Community Forums
305: Community Forums
306: Community Forums
307: Community Forums
308: Community Forums
309: Community Forums
310: Community Forums
311: Community Forums
312: Community Forums
313: Community Forums
314: Community Forums
315: Community Forums
316: Community Forums
317: Community Forums
318: Community Forums
319: Community Forums
320: Community Forums
321: Community Forums
322: Community Forums
323: Community Forums
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: Community Forums
327: Community Forums
328: Community Forums
329: Community Forums
330: Community Forums
331: Community Forums
332: Community Forums
333: Community Forums
334: Photo Gallery
335: Community Forums
336: Community Forums
337: Community Forums
338: Community Forums
339: Photo Gallery
340: Community Forums
341: Community Forums
342: Downloads
343: Community Forums
344: Community Forums
345: Community Forums
346: Community Forums
347: Community Forums
348: Community Forums
349: Community Forums
350: Community Forums
351: Community Forums
352: Community Forums
353: Community Forums
354: Community Forums
355: Community Forums
356: Statistics
357: Community Forums
358: Community Forums
359: Community Forums
360: Community Forums
361: Community Forums
362: Community Forums
363: Community Forums
364: Community Forums
365: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Sgt York (DIVAD Gun) Information
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 1:22 am
Post subject: Sgt York (DIVAD Gun) Information

Found this data sheet while digging thru the Archives, some time ago. Just 'rediscovered' the entire data sheet.

(Let the debate begin.... Mr. Green )

[img][/img]


Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 22, 2006
Posts: 4631
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 1:37 am
Post subject: Re: Sgt York (DIVAD Gun) Information

What's to debate?....By the time it could have been fielded, it couldn't keep up with the forces it was expected to defend and couldn't hit anything even if it had.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
MarkHolloway
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 07, 2006
Posts: 2054
Location: Beatty, Nevada
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 1:50 am
Post subject: Re: Sgt York (DIVAD Gun) Information

The glacis in the top photo is straight like an M60. Doesn't show the modified rear deck cover. I think Ford Aerospace had this contract. They disappeared after this failure. They would have done just as well, or better, to have upgraded the Duster.

_________________
"TUMBLEWEED"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 1:53 am
Post subject: Re: Sgt York (DIVAD Gun) Information

- Doug_Kibbey
What's to debate?....By the time it could have been fielded, it couldn't keep up with the forces it was expected to defend and couldn't hit anything even if it had.


Agreed, but when I first posted just the hull diagrams, there seemed to be doubts in the information and I wasn't able to produce the entire data page.

Amazing that the M48 Hull system is used, instead of an Abrams or lighter AGS or even sheridan hull system.

The Division level Air Defense asset (hence the title DIVAD Gun) should have been developed with the future speed element foremost in the concept process.

JMHO
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 28, 2006
Posts: 2024
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:11 am
Post subject: Re: Sgt York (DIVAD Gun) Information

Don Said:

Amazing that the M48 Hull system is used, instead of an Abrams or lighter AGS or even sheridan hull system.


I think it was a matter of necessity, Remember at this time M1 production was just ramping up (1985) and Detroit had to be used until Lima could get fully on line. Priority one was fielding the M1 Tank and no hulls could be diverted for other special projects at the time. As far as using the AGS or M551 hulls, I think again it was a matter of physics and cost. Both systems are very light and would be way underpowered to move/ power the electricity sucking turret of the DIVAD system. Also at this time the M60A3's being replaced by M1's were replacing the M48A5's in the Guard, creating a surplus of M48 hulls that logistically were easy to support verses the M551 or AGS whose parts were very limited.

If, and I say big if, the system performed as required, the hull could have been easily up graded with a more powerful engine and better suspension to keep up with the M1's. Both had already been developed for the M60 series but not implemented due to the M1 fielding. Applying them to an M48 hull would be very simple.

That DD 672-1 looks like part of a request for the DoD to provide M48A5 hulls with the necessary equipment. That might explain why the drawing is not of the actual M247 hull.

Thanks for sharing Don

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 22, 2006
Posts: 2516
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:01 am
Post subject: Re: Sgt York (DIVAD Gun) Information

As I remember it (always dangerous) The Divad was a knee jerk reaction to the concerns with air defense in Europe based on observations in the Yom Kippur war ( The success of the zsu-23 and the smaller missles) and counting the number of aircraft the Soviets had to throw at the European front. I believe it was felt that they could save time (and money) by using an existing chassis. They didn't want to buy the Gepard but wanted a similar vehicle. It was thought that it was a low risk quick turnaround development effort. Then they started adding capabilities and it grew and stretched out in development time

I don't think an M551 chassis could have handled the recoil forces of twin automatic 35 or 40 mm weapons, especially when firing at low angle to the side

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Jens_O_Mehner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 511
Location: Giessen, Germany
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:30 am
Post subject: Re: Sgt York (DIVAD Gun) Information

- MarkHolloway
The glacis in the top photo is straight like an M60.


Nope,

it certainly is not, as evidenced by the round sections on the lower hull- those would not be there on a straight glacis, which would show up as a rectangle on this type of drawing. Cool



Jens O.
Back to top
View user's profile
MarkHolloway
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 07, 2006
Posts: 2054
Location: Beatty, Nevada
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 12:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Sgt York (DIVAD Gun) Information

VIDEO www.youtube.com/watch?...re=related

_________________
"TUMBLEWEED"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
GaryKato
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 06, 2006
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 12:21 pm
Post subject: Re: Sgt York (DIVAD Gun) Information

I seem to recall it was supposed to be low risk: Known hull, known gun, known radar (from F-16 if I remember).
Back to top
View user's profile
MarkHolloway
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 07, 2006
Posts: 2054
Location: Beatty, Nevada
PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Sgt York (DIVAD Gun) Information

- GaryKato
I seem to recall it was supposed to be low risk: Known hull, known gun, known radar (from F-16 if I remember).


That's what I remember, too. Also the twin 40mm guns from the Duster. Should have been reliable. Should have....

_________________
"TUMBLEWEED"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 28, 2006
Posts: 2024
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Sgt York (DIVAD Gun) Information

Gary said;

I seem to recall it was supposed to be low risk: Known hull, known gun, known radar (from F-16 if I remember).


All systems were proven, but in regards to the Radar, I don't think it was for ground use Rolling Eyes .

Therein lies the major problem. Something that is designed to work in the relatively clean environment of the sky does not automatically guarantee it'll work in a AFV. Not to mention the stress and shock it undergoes. Another problem from what I can remember was the inability to sort out all the clutter it experienced. IIRC the system was supposed to hone in on the tell tale signature of a helicopter rotor. Unfortunately it was easily confused and locked on such inordinate things like ventilator fans. It didn't help that during testing the targets were rigged to self destruct, a safety requirement, that ended up being a big controversy with the media when accusations were made that they were never effectively struck. The stink was that they supposedly faked the ability to hit by detonating the targets on cue.

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
tommyarizona
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Dec 05, 2008
Posts: 9
Location: Lake Havasu City Arizona
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Sgt York (DIVAD Gun) Information

Fella’s
I just happened across this.
I was the design engineer for the gunfights on divad.
Prior to this I spent a month working on the rear deck you are questioning.
The Mod on the chassis was brought about with the addition of a 135 Hp turbine engine as an auxiliary power unit. Also the addition of better air filtration for both main and aux engines.
The M248 chassis would have not been my first pick either.
But they were plentiful.
The Guns
40s were chosen over 30s for many reasons, these are the ones I know of,
At the time the 40mm round came in a number of flavors mainly a Proximity round the 30 did not.
Ford Aeronutronic had just bid another project using a 30mm cannon and lost the bid.
Also lets not forget that Ford Aeronutronic was the maker of ammunition 20, 30, 40mm.
I believe using the 40 was also a business decision $$$$.
Lastly
Ford actually scored less direct hits in the initial shoot off with GD who was using twin 30's.
But because Ford was using a prox round there near misses were counted as hits.
One other thing to point out.
GD (General Dynamics) went light with its turret, it was all aluminum better suited for the 30s

I don’t know ware you are going with this topic.
So let me say this.
Nothing you read about this system, (on the Net or in the public news agencies) is the truth.
The cancellation of this system was purely political and had nothing to do with its performance.
I have been the senior Designer Engineer on many systems for the military.
To this day I am bitter about the cancellation of Divad.
One can not say, that if it worked as advertised(and it did)
We don’t badly need this system today.
Not to mention the if it was in our arsenal today it would be a matured system with all the advances in technology we have made since.
Had it not been canceled Katusha's would have never hit the ground in Israel.

Remember
The claim was that the system could not reach the stand off distance of the Russian Hind helicopter.
But the question as to weather it could shoot down the missiles fired by the Hind was never brought up or tested.
A BIG MISTAKE.

In the end...
The Missile loopiest won.
and there associates got all the gold $$$$$


Please
Feel free to visit my website for Ref www.tmaengineering.net
Click Defense tab

Peace
Tom

Peace
Tom
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 8:05 pm
Post subject: Re: Sgt York (DIVAD Gun) Information

Tom

WOW!! WELCOME!

I have contributed to a number of discussions on the Sgt York, but mainly from the aspect of an AFV historical aspect.

I remember DIVAD mainly due to a family members involvement in ADA during those days, and a possible after-service career at a 'proposed' DIVAD production facility in El Paso Tx. Your assertions to the testing is along the same lines as my family members.

Our big 'deal' is attempting to properly ID a vehicle based off of vehicle features. Sometimes it can be quite a 'dog-eat-dog' discussion. The primary goal is to exchange ideas and information in the hopes of historical accuracy.

Thanks for the information.
Regards
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
tommyarizona
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Dec 05, 2008
Posts: 9
Location: Lake Havasu City Arizona
PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:56 am
Post subject: Re: Sgt York (DIVAD Gun) Information

Hello Don/All
Yep this one hits a nerve.
And good old Elpaso does too.
Fort Bliss
2 years 3rd Cav as an artillery surveyor.
Not complaining, I was young and dumb and wanted to go to Nam.
The God send was that the war ended wile I was in AIT, and I got stuck at Fort Bliss.
Didn’t seem fair at time, but I thank my lucky star’s today.
I grew a brain. Razz

If I can help with Divad let me know.
The only historical thing I can think of is that Divad was the first military system to go from concept to production in 5 years
(this included building the assembly ficility)
It was to be the model program for development of future military systems like it.
I use to have a top assy outline drawing but I have not seen it in a wile.I will look.
I have to mention,
When the government closes a program they make sure its gone for good.
I didn’t see them crush vheicales, but I saw them crush everything else.
All I can say is they make sure know one can change there mind.

Cheers
Tom
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
MarkHolloway
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 07, 2006
Posts: 2054
Location: Beatty, Nevada
PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:06 am
Post subject: Re: Sgt York (DIVAD Gun) Information

Tommy,

When were you at Bliss and what squadron? I was in 'B' Troop 72-73 and 'I' Troop 76-79.

_________________
"TUMBLEWEED"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 4
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum