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M60A3 vs M60A3(TTS): How to tell apart?
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Kurt_Laughlin
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 11:21 pm
Post subject: M60A3 vs M60A3(TTS): How to tell apart?

Is there any way to tell these apart externally?

Thx,
KL
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piney
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 12:46 am
Post subject: Re: M60A3 vs M60A3(TTS): How to tell apart?

Hi Kurt

the way to tell them apart is by the shape of the armored cover over the sight periscope. If it's rounded front to back it's a TTS housing, If it has a flat top it's IR/passive. Don't mean to toot my own horn but I wrote a PDF on ID'ing external features on the US M60 family. It's available as a free download from the group at this link
www.com-central.net/in...ds&get=306

Jeff "Piney" Lewis
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 4:23 am
Post subject: Re: M60A3 vs M60A3(TTS): How to tell apart?

Piney may not want to brag about his M60 handout but I will. It used the inputs from our own 'Mr M-60' Joe_D to decide what features and variations of features were significant. Then Piney did an excellent job of illustrating those features and formatting it into an easy to carry handout.

In fact I'm glad this came up right now. My nephew will be home for Turkey day and since September lives near the M-60 in Rock Hall MD. I need him to get pictures of it for us.

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TrevorLarkum
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:34 am
Post subject: Re: M60A3 vs M60A3(TTS): How to tell apart?

Yes, it's a neat document - I'm currently using it to help me assess the characteristics of the M60's I photographed in my recent US trip. Recommended.

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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:56 am
Post subject: Re: M60A3 vs M60A3(TTS): How to tell apart?

Piney said,

the way to tell them apart is by the shape of the armored cover over the sight periscope


Yes, that works for old photographs and display tanks where the housing hasn't been removed, which many were.

Another sure way is if the searchlight power receptacle has been welded over with a cap. IAW official records, all 748 US Army A3 Passives were depot converted to TTS by 1984. Exceptions are the 114 that were converted locally with kits, these aren't capped and retain the receptacle, Aberdeen's M60A3 is one example.

All Anniston and Mainz Tanks were produced as TTS.

Joe D
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MarkHolloway
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:24 am
Post subject: Re: M60A3 vs M60A3(TTS): How to tell apart?

deleted after re-reading question

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Last edited by MarkHolloway on Fri Dec 05, 2008 4:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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piney
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 12:13 pm
Post subject: Re: M60A3 vs M60A3(TTS): How to tell apart?

Thank you gentlemen for the praise Certainly most of the credit should go to Joe D. I am glad that the booklet is proving to be useful

Piney
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Sabot
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 5:47 am
Post subject: Re: M60A3 vs M60A3(TTS): How to tell apart?

- MarkHolloway
The way I tell is the A3 has the cross-wind sensor on the back of the turret (behind loader's hatch) and it has the thermal shroud on the gun tube.

But that doesn't help to distinguish between an A3 and an A3TTS.

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Kurt_Laughlin
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 8:52 am
Post subject: Excellent!

Great document guys!

Two administrative questions:

1. How would people find that without asking as I did?

2. How did you produce the line drawings? Some I recognize from existing TMs or drawings but others look to be made from photos. That tool would be really useful.

Thanks again,
KL
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piney
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 10:35 am
Post subject: Re: M60A3 vs M60A3(TTS): How to tell apart?

Hi Kurt

The original drawings were done with a free program called Paint.net. www.getpaint.net/ If you are familar with using what are called layers. you put a new transparent layer over the photo and in essence use the program to trace over it. a little learning curve but you get the hang of it pretty quickly. then you delete the original photo and are left with the drawing.

regarding finding the documets (I,ve done two others) go to the com central home page and click on the downloads link on the left hand side. they are in the section AFV downloads

Piney
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 10:54 am
Post subject: Re: M60A3 vs M60A3(TTS): How to tell apart?

Kurt,

One of the many benefits of Com-Cental membership is the availability of downloads and space to have contributed items uploaded. We would always be pleased to receive any contributions to that section that you feel would be of interest to the AFV community (as they all are, I'm sure). If you need any help with that, feel free to ask. The AFV "downloads" section is here:

www.com-central.net/in...loads&c=81

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JG300-Ascout
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:02 pm
Post subject: Re: M60A3 vs M60A3(TTS): How to tell apart?

Jeff,
It's a small thing, but in looking at the bustle rack configurations in the "spotter's guide" I noticed only the partial rack option with clearance for the stowed searchlight on the M60. Such a rack could also be found on M60A1's and, in my experience, generally had the AN/VSS-1 stowed on the opposite (right) side (just under turret ventilator) with bustle rack truncated for clearance.


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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 4:23 pm
Post subject: Re: M60A3 vs M60A3(TTS): How to tell apart?

Ascout,

There should be a section showing the difference between the A1 detachable rack and the very late A1 and A3 one piece model. This is one way to ID a rebuild A3 without knowing the SN, since all new production Detroit A3's had one piece bustle racks.

The searchlight stowage was a doctrinal procedure, where the crew would only mount the searchlight when it's use was planned. The idea was it would be better protected when stowed. Eventually it was realized that it made no real difference and moving that "Big Screen TV" VSS-1 or 2 back and forward was just not necessary. As these A1's were rebuilt/ upgraded/ converted to later models, this capability was deleted and the the stowage bracket and rear interrupter was removed. Even some of the M60's that soldiered on in 80's with the National Guard had them removed.

Here's a picture from the original M60/M60A1 TM from 1965.

M60A1bustle rack

Joe D
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piney
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 5:15 pm
Post subject: Re: M60A3 vs M60A3(TTS): How to tell apart?

Hi Ascout and Joe

if you to can get me the right info and a photo or two I will be glad to update the guide

Piney
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JG300-Ascout
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 5:40 pm
Post subject: Re: M60A3 vs M60A3(TTS): How to tell apart?

- piney
Hi Ascout and Joe

if you to can get me the right info and a photo or two I will be glad to update the guide

Piney


We aims ta' please.

FYI, Joe (not surprizingly) is correct about storage being "planned for", usually. When I was testing the AN/VSS-1 searchlights on the M60A1, the test vehicles (there were two) did not have the stowage racks or partial bustles mounted because we never stowed the searchlights, their being always mounted for use during the test project.

You are welcome to use this if it helps.


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